Member Since: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 3637
Been reading this thread with interest and tried what you said drivesafe.
Last 3 days, Ive been doing the following using a CTEK MX10 charger on AGM program
Full charge and left on float for 8 - 10 hours before disconnecting.
4 or 5 hours later back repeat process.
Before I started this, the battery voltage was 12.1v at rest, now it is 12.39
Going to keep doing this until I get it 100% charged.
29th Jun 2014 1:34 pm
Dudleydisco
Member Since: 20 Jun 2014
Location: York
Posts: 853
Hi Woody. Out of interest, where and how have you connected the CTEK? I'm using the eyelet quick connect lead. I've got the +ve secured to the bolt on the +ve side of the batt, and the -ve connected to the top bolt in the bodywork just in front of the battery.
I'm now on day 4 of the same procedure, and only seem to have managed 12.33V to 12.34!D4 MY14 XXV - RLD/IID BT
D4 MY13 HSE Lux - RLD/IID BT
P38 RR - Sad parting
110 - Even sadder parting
S3 88" - Still going strong after 23 years of ownership
29th Jun 2014 6:19 pm
WOODY179
Member Since: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 3637
I have been using the towing electrics to charge the vehicle, a lot easier as it means the charger can be left inside the garage and the CTEK extension lead can be run under the door to the socket. You can buy the tow bar electrics connector from the forum shop
I have in the past used the quick connect lead which is connected exactly the same as yours - both methods should work the same though.
29th Jun 2014 6:35 pm
Dudleydisco
Member Since: 20 Jun 2014
Location: York
Posts: 853
Cheers Woody. I can park mine near enough to the garage to run the extension cable from the bonnet, under the door and onto the CTEK. My D4 hasn't got the towing electrics fitted, otherwise I'd have gone for your method D4 MY14 XXV - RLD/IID BT
D4 MY13 HSE Lux - RLD/IID BT
P38 RR - Sad parting
110 - Even sadder parting
S3 88" - Still going strong after 23 years of ownership
29th Jun 2014 6:46 pm
lespes
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Sitting Down
Posts: 2232
Since posting the orig post on this and following on from my service, where the Landrover BMS was reset and new software uploaded for smoking issues everything has worked fine.
Timed climate used everyday for weeks on end with only 4 5 miles runs in the day and not one low power warning seen. No top ups with c-tek either.
It would appear that the re-programming for the towbar electrics drained the battery and the landrover system was fooled by this. No matter how much c-tek was used low power warning would come on, no matter how many miles were driven 20 or 150.
Since the BMs system reset it has not caused a problem, I have watched TV for over an hour, same with radio and nothing has caused it to flag up the low power warning again.
Have no idea why or how but would seem it is the Landrover BMS system has amajor part in keeping the battery charged upD4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
D4 HSE MY12 Marmais Teal: Gone. Missed a lot!
Freelander 2 SD HSE MY11 Silver:Thankfully gone.
D4 HSE MY11 Silver: Gone missed !
Range Rover Sport MY06 HSE Buck Blue: Gone missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Facelift MY Red Gone Missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Cobalt Blue: Gone Missed!
Discovery D1 Auto Oxford Blue Not missed at all!
Discovery D1 Avalon Blue First LR! missed!
Now demoted to a VW
29th Jun 2014 7:22 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
vs2 wrote:
Hi Tim. I have your system with the Optima Yellow Top. Something I don't understand, ie when you charge multiple AA batteries in a charger they are charged individually by the charger, so when I charge the D4 through the 12S socket with my Ctek mxs5 how does the charger charge both batteries perfectly when it is not charging them individually. Cheers.
Hi vs2, first off, with two batteries wired in parallel, the voltage of both batteries will be the same.
But you can have two batteries of different sizes ( capacity ) such as in your D4, with a 90Ah cranking battery and a 55Ah auxiliary battery.
To simplify this explanation, I’ll use two different size batteries, battery A is a 100Ah and battery B is a 50Ah.
With the two batteries wired in parallel and say at 12.0v, when a 15 amp battery charger is connected to one of them, either one, it makes no difference, the charger will be charging both batteries at the same voltage but battery A at 10 amps and battery B at 5 amps and the two batteries will charge at a 2:1 ratio all the way through the charge cycle till they are both fully charged.
Change the battery sizes to two 100Ah batteries and both will be charged at 7.5 amps each.
Go to an extreme difference of say battery A = 200Ah and battery B = 50Ah, A with be charged at 12 amps and 3 amps.
Note this is how battery chargers work and it does not matter if the batteries are the same TYPE or different TYPES.
Alternators work in a different way and even if the batteries are wired in parallel and at the same voltage when you start your drive, an alternator will charge each battery at that battery’s acceptance charge current.
Put another way, with your two batteries, the cranking battery is a Calcium/Calcium battery and from 12.0v SoC will charge at around 30 amps initially, while your auxiliary battery, even though it is smaller, will charge at 50+ amps initially.
With an alternator, you regularly end up with two batteries charged to different levels when you turn the motor off.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
30th Jun 2014 10:14 pm
Paddy0174
Member Since: 27 Apr 2014
Location: Munich
Posts: 173
Unfortunately I couldn't add anything useful to this thread, but I want to say a big thanks to you, drivesafe!
With you sharing your knowledge, I've learnt a lot more about batteries in a few posts, than all I learnt in the past! Thanks, and keep up with enlighting battery-noobs like me! Cheers Patrick from Munich
*******************************
Disco4 HSE / corris grey / MY 15
Harley Davidson FLHTCU / red / MY 91
VW Beetle Cabrio / toffeebrown / MY 14
30th Jun 2014 11:05 pm
vs2
Member Since: 11 Dec 2013
Location: NZ
Posts: 55
Thanks Tim, that makes things a lot clearer.Black pack, Traxide D4-1U with jumpstart, Whispbar Rack, Nanocom, 285/50r20 Cooper LTZ's, Side steps, NZ spec-no DPF.
30th Jun 2014 11:06 pm
nighthawk
Member Since: 24 Jul 2010
Location: Malta
Posts: 1163
I've also been trying the charge cycle thing Tim mentioned on this thread.
I remember when I bought my current Varta AGM battery it measured around 13.05V after settling at home for 24 hours. I thought "WOW!" but put it down to it just being new.
1 year later, my alternator failed so I had the opportunity to get the battery out of the car and get it charged for a few days till my replacement got shipped from UK.
After the first charge cycle I had 12.75V after settling 8 hours. Slowly slowly, after 7 days of 8-hours-on-8-hours-off cycles, I got 12.99V yesterday. Initially I would recover 0.05V for the first couple of cycles, but then started dropping and since 12.9V I'm now only getting 0.02V per cycle. Today is probably my last charge cycle before it goes back in the car. I'm expecting to break the 13V barrier. That's very close to brand new state of charge! Dennis
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial Manual Buckingham Blue
1st Jul 2014 12:37 pm
WOODY179
Member Since: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 3637
I'm still doing the charge cycle, though the voltage increase has slowed down now, still going up though
After 3 days, it went up to 12.39 from 12.1, after a further 2 days it was 12.43.
1st Jul 2014 12:50 pm
phl
Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 111
Tim,
I noticed there is a reconditioning mode in the Ctek; is that of any use to bring the it back to full capacity?
6th Jul 2014 8:26 am
nighthawk
Member Since: 24 Jul 2010
Location: Malta
Posts: 1163
Yes also interested in the reconditioning mode. I didn't use it on my Varta AGM and neither on my Optima Yellow Top as the voltage the MXS25 puts out (15.8V) exceeds the maximum voltage specified by both batteries (around 15V for Varta AGM, 15.6V for the Optima). So I erred on the side of caution
But very curious to know if it will work, at least for the Optima. The website listed 15.6V for "rapid recharge" and then went on to sternly say "ALL LIMITS MUST BE STRICTLY ADHERED TO"Dennis
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial Manual Buckingham Blue
6th Jul 2014 9:27 am
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi phl and as Dennis posted, this cycle should not be use on AGM or Gel cell batteries.
Wet Cell batteries, particularly Calcium/Calcium batteries, which make up the bulk of cranking batteries, definitely benefit from the Reconditioning cycle, but note, this is not new.
In many other battery chargers, the Reconditioning cycle is known as the BOOST and/or EQUALISATION cycle.
Again, this is only valid with wet cell batteries, but if you do not have a charger with this type of boosted voltage charge cycle, or if you have AGM batteries, the SOAK charge I posted up about earlier in this thread, will achieve the same end results.
With both SOAK and/or RECONDITION cycle, one cycle will not do all that much, but numerous cycles will improve the capacity and condition of most batteries that is down on performance.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
6th Jul 2014 9:57 am
Dudleydisco
Member Since: 20 Jun 2014
Location: York
Posts: 853
I found an interesting SSM on TOPIx - SSM67197:
Do not reset the BMS under any circumstances unless a new battery is fitted. Carrying out this action without replacing the battery can temporarily fix the customer's issue as the BMS learn process restarts. When the learn process is complete, the vehicle will revert back to the original state, which the customer will see as a repeat incidence of the same issue. Additionally, resetting the BMS resets the battery age counter to 0 days. This introduces inaccuracy in the BMS ageing algorithms which may cause future customer complaints.
The BMS calculates the battery state/health by measuring battery current, battery voltage and environment temperature.
I'm pretty sure than when my D4 was in for the 3 min warning last time, the dealer told me they'd charged the battery and then reset the BMS. That could explain why it was fine for a few days, but the problem has now come back! It's booked in again on Monday, so we'll see how that goes D4 MY14 XXV - RLD/IID BT
D4 MY13 HSE Lux - RLD/IID BT
P38 RR - Sad parting
110 - Even sadder parting
S3 88" - Still going strong after 23 years of ownership
7th Jul 2014 2:36 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
I suspect there may be a problem with some of the new Discoverys, because I have had two instances, where after fitting a dual battery system, the Disco kept messaging “Battery Low, Start motorâ€, even though, in both cases, the batteries were charged overnight, after the install and then the messages, but the messages continued.
In the first event, a hard reset solved the problem and the messages have not returned.
In the second event, the messages returned after a week or so, and then, even with the batteries ( auxiliary and cranking batteries ) being continually recharged overnight, and the batteries being in a fully charged state, the messages continued.
As a fault finding exercise, the dual battery system was disconnected, but the messages just continue.
The second Disco is going back to the dealers to have the problem sorted.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
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