Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
Beaker wrote:
The alarm on my brand-new D3 tests itself automatically every couple of hours
Beaker, definitely sounds like there's a problem with the CJB communication to the alarm sounder
I know you said you had the software update carried out but it's still possible that the CCF (car configuration file) is incorrect with respect to the type of alarm sounder fitted. It's also possible that the CJB is faulty or has a corrupted download
10FC, yes, they updated the CJB software (I have to translate here from the dutch terms I gleaned from the dealer's PC screen, everything is in dutch there...).
But would a communication problem between the CJB and alarm sounder result in a 'interior alarm' message in the maintenance logs (called something like 'reasons for alarm' as I recall from the screen)? Because that was shown 9 or 10 times as the reason the alarm went off.
This CCF, can the dealer just edit that to reflect the proper parts installed? Is it a sort of config file for the CJB or what?
I assume that CJB stands for 'Central Junction Box'? What is the function of that unit, is it dedicated to the alarm or does it have a more general function?
The dealer suggests that the 'interior sensor unit' (I have no clue how it is actually called) is at fault, and they are going to replace that on friday. Do you expect that replacing that unit will fix these problems? Or should I already plan some more visits to the dealer?
I realize that I ask a lot of questions, but the knowledge on this forum seems to go much deeper than that of the mechanics at the dealer (or maybe they just want to keep their secrets ). It is nice to learn more about the actual technology of the car.
Where did you guys learn all this? Thanks for all the patience you have with newbies like me! 2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
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Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
Discoflo..... more than you think
Beaker, the CCF cannot be edited like a text file - not by the dealers anyway, it's compiled by ticking (or not) boxes on the screen of the WDS / IDS computer. It's important that the CCF is uploaded to WDS / IDS before ant software upgrades are carried out, then re-downloaded to the vehicle on completion.
You are correct about the anacronym CJB... it is not just a wiring junction box, it has it's own software and is therefore updatable and addressable, for example, it takes inputs from the light switches to turn on or off the transistors that power the lights, hence the reason why no indicator relay is fitted on the Disco3 and it takes a visit to the dealer to enable additional driving lights
If the DTC (diagnostic trouble code) is indicating that the sensors are at fault, I have no reason to doubt it (or the dealers diagnosis), although it may be worth checking for cascaded DTC's in case there is a loss of communication on the LIN (local interconnect network) that carries the alarm signals.
There have been several updates to the DTC logging, both on the vehicle and on WDS / IDS itself so they should now be pretty accurate and less prone to misinterpretation by 'less well trained' dealer staff
DTC's can also be logged for simpler things such as poorly made connections, sometimes it's easy to look to deeply into things...
10FC, thanks for your lengthy answer. If I understand correctly, if there is only DTC's pointing to the interior motion sensor, that would be the likely culprit. If there are more DTC's pointing to various other events/units, it could be a communications failure with the CJB? Or did I completely misunderstand what you wrote?
As far as the CCF goes, I can't really remember exactly what the mechanic did, but he selected the CJB from a list of items, got a list of available updates, selected those and after some time it was completed. I did not witness any specific action that downloaded configuration from the vehicle, and restoring it later.
After plugging in the WDS/IDS on the vehicle he did go through a cycle of answering questions about the vehicle (diesel, xenon lamps, etc) and switching the ignition on and off various times, but that is probably something different. Funny that the vehicle does not supply that info itself...
Is all (or most) signalling between devices like lamps and controls actually done via databuses on the D3? Or is there traditional 'analog' wiring still? 2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
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5th Sep 2006 4:36 pm
10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
Beaker, pretty much got it in one...
They need to upload the CCF before any downloads to save them having to 'tick all the boxes' afterwards though
There's not much analogue switching on the Disco3, data communications include:-
High speed CAN
Low speed CAN
MOST
LIN (s)
DTC's can be misleading if there is a dodgy connector causing the faults (i'm not saying there is in this case) as loss of communication can lead the relevant CPU to log an erroneous fault purely due to a poor connection....
5th Sep 2006 10:07 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26714
Another possibility is an un-welcome resident in your D3!
I had a Volvo with an alarm that went off very regularly. Turned out to be a spider living in the headlining, everytime he popped out of his little house (via the motion sensor) he set off the sirens.
No software fix for that, just a rolled up newspaper will do
What a lovely high-tech machine this is! I will just let the dealer replace the motion sensor and see if that fixes the problem. If not, I will rolll up some newspapers and do some serious debugging We do have a lot of spiders around the house at the moment. Btw, my previous car was a Volvo V70, with alarm, but that never suffered from this problem. Maybe the D3 is more sensitive, or maybe the spiders are bigger this year
Where is that sensor actually located in the car? Is it just one sensor or are there more of them in the car?
Thanks again for your help, if you guys (I assume ) ever come to Holland I will take you out for some beers 2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
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5th Sep 2006 11:40 pm
10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
Beaker, the sensor is located in the centre of the headlining
Might just take you up on the offer of a beer one day!
To give you a taste of the technology, heres a bit of one of the Disco3 training docs
Quote:
Controller Area Network (CAN)
The CAN bus is a high speed broadcast network where
the ECU’s automatically transmit information on the
bus every few microseconds. The other buses are low
speed networks which are mainly event driven, i.e. an
electronic control module outputs a message only in
response to a request message from another ECU or a
hard wired input from a switch or sensor.
A twisted pair of wires are used for the CAN bus and
single wires are used for all of the other buses. Bus wires
can be repaired using crimped connections. The
unwound length of CAN bus wires must not exceed 40
mm (1.6 in).
Two CAN busses are employed on the vehicle:
• Medium speed
• High speed
The medium speed bus connects the following control
modules:
• Integrated Head Unit (IHU) or low line head unit
• Heating and ventilation control module
• Fuel burning heater
• Park distance control
• Tyre pressure monitoring control module
• Central junction box
The high speed bus connects the following control
modules:
• Steering angle sensor
• Air suspension
• Electric park brake
• Electronic rear differential control module
• Terrain Response™
• Restraint control module
• Engine control module
• Transmission control module
• Adaptive front lighting system control module
• Antilock Braking System (ABS) control module
Both the medium and high speed CAN bus are
connected to the Instrument cluster and the diagnostic
socket at one end. The Medium speed bus terminates at
the Central Junction Box (CJB), while the high speed
bus terminates at the ABS control module.
Control modules are connected in either a loop , CAN
in/ CAN out, or a spur configuration. Should a control
module that is looped fail that bus system will fail at
that point. Should a spurred control module fail the rest
of the bus system will be unaffected by the faulty control
module.
You didn't take your D3 apart for me, did you?
Very high tech stuff! About 10 years ago, I worked for our national aircraft manufacturer Fokker (dead now, not because I worked there... ), and this type of technology looks very familiar. Amazing that it has made its way to automotive now.
Let's hope it isn't as expensive to operate 2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
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6th Sep 2006 1:47 pm
dylansdad
Member Since: 04 Apr 2006
Location: Solihull
Posts: 745
who killed the fokker? ........I want to hire him to visit my dealer 2004 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi Silver
Mmm, to be honest: the Dutch government and the Germans worked together to kill the company
Take your pick who you want to send over to your dealer 2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
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6th Sep 2006 1:58 pm
10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
We used to have some slightly embarrasing moments when using the company name in english discussions . So they decided to pronounce it as 'foker', to avoid giggling during meetings 2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
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Had a new motion sensor unit fitted today, but just now the alarm went off again
Checked, but could not see a spider or anything else that could have caused it.
From reading other threads I see that more people here have had this kind of problem, did anyone get it fixed in the end? 2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
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). It is nice to learn more about the actual technology of the car.
2006 Zermatt Silver TDV6 'SE' Auto, Mantec sump guard, Frontrunner roofrack, Lightforce 140s, split charge system and... a Jetboil.
- 
Or is there traditional 'analog' wiring still?
