Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
Amplifier Removal
I am having trouble with my HK amp and have bought a replacement. I can see that the amp is held on by 4 bolts that unscrew, which I have done. The amp then has 5 banks of wires connected to it, 2 of which come out very easily (grey and black blocks), but the other 3 will not budge. How do you remove these other sockets without breaking the things?
Also, do I need to take the seat out to remove the amp, or does it slide out from under the front of the seat?No longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
23rd Aug 2010 1:51 pm
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Hiya nobbyclark
I have had my HK Logic 7 Amp out from behind the seat without removing the seat, Some of the connectors are tight, requiring more than finger pressure on their latches and a hurculean tug to free them, but i promise they are definately not glued in.
23rd Aug 2010 8:09 pm
nobbyclark
Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
Thanks for that. Will try again at the weekend when I am back home. BTW, what are the grey and black blocks of wires for? I managed to pull those out and noticed that the radio, steering wheel controls and all speakers still work.No longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
24th Aug 2010 9:07 am
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Headphone sockets & surround speaker or centre i think, not one you would instantly notice.
25th Aug 2010 2:03 pm
nobbyclark
Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
CheersNo longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
25th Aug 2010 3:36 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
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You are welcome NC
Actually i had to unplug a brand new Logic 7 Amp from a brand new Loom an hour or so ago on the bench, that i merrily plugged in only yesterday. And i do see your problem, the Grey power one to the Left came with just thumb or finger pressure on the latch, but it was mighty tight and i recon it was only because i could orient the Amp and myself such that it and I were in an ideal situation for me to exert sufficient force, i recon working under the seat would not be so easy.
Attempting the same on the Green main speaker connection beside the Grey Power one was utterly futile.
I had to have an assistant firmly hold the AMP sideways on, while i used a flat screwdriver and leavered against the Heat sink lip. Even then, the green latch showed no real positive signs of movement, but pressing the latch as hard as i could / dared and pulling on the connector at the same time finally saw it come out.
It was so bad i decided not to re connect the Green one as it is not really needed for what i am doing.
I hope this helps you much more, if only building up your confidence and faith
BTW, what seems to be wrong with your old Amp?
25th Aug 2010 5:28 pm
nobbyclark
Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
I have an 05 S with what I think is the Hi Line stereo (6 Cd changer/radio, speakers in front/rear doors, tweeters in front door pillars, sub in the tailgate).
The original amp blew about a year ago and I replaced it with one from a RRS. I posted about this at the time and you gave me some useful info, including the wiring diagrams for the various amps.
The RRS amp works OK, but does not power the subwoofer. It also has a strange relationship with the fader control on the radio (either all are centred, or all output goes to the front). This is not a problem, as I want the speakers centred, but the lack of bass is.
So I have bought another amp from eBay, this time from a D3, which is marked Logic 7. Hopefully it will give me back the low frequencies.No longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
25th Aug 2010 5:45 pm
nobbyclark
Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
Ok, finally managed to get the green block out:
The new amp is an HK Logic 7. It powers all of the door speakers:
- tweeters in the front pillars
- bass speakers in the front doors
- midrange speakers in the back doors
- bass speakers in the back doors
And there is a muted sound coming from what sounds like 2 subs in the tailgate. But not the chest-pounding bass that I used to have.
I have checked the sub setting on the stereo's menu and it is set where it always was, about 3/4 of the way to the right; adjusting it makes no difference.
If I adjust the balance, sound moves left to right as expected; if I adjust the fader, sound is either on or off i.e. it does not move front to back, or vice-versa.
The previous amp (High Line, I think) must have output the speaker signals to different connectors on the green block.
Is it also possible that the High Line amp outputs to the subwoofer using a different connector to the big green one? Also, how do I find out what kind of sub I have (active/passive)? I am assuming the latter since there is no oomph coming from the tailgate, in which case where does the Logic 7 output the subwoofer signal? I thought it was to pins 7/8 and 15/16, which you can see from the picture are connected (to something, possibly not the sub of course).No longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
11th Sep 2010 4:05 pm
nobbyclark
Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
In fact, looking at the wiring diagram for the High Line:
It looks like the sub output comes from a different block - which one is it?No longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
11th Sep 2010 4:12 pm
nobbyclark
Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
And another hifi-related question: what is under the grille in the centre of the dash? Looks like a speaker cover. Is this the centre speaker?No longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
20th Sep 2010 4:10 pm
mik
Member Since: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Skoatland
Posts: 912
nobbyclark wrote:
And there is a muted sound coming from what sounds like 2 subs in the tailgate. But not the chest-pounding bass that I used to have.
I have checked the sub setting on the stereo's menu and it is set where it always was, about 3/4 of the way to the right; adjusting it makes no difference.
It's a single passive sub in the lower tailgate.
From my previous searches, this behaviour would appear to be normal I'm afraid - if you sit on the tailgate and up the stereo sub setting, you definately feel an increase in output (your wife might like to do that bit ) but this doesn't translate to your (or my) ears when you are sat in the front.
May be worth a different thread, but would be interesting to see whether anyone has found a solution, or fitted a more powerful sub?
20th Sep 2010 4:44 pm
wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14368
there are quite a few pins that are different on the harman kardon amp and the logic 7 amp .
Your problem with the fader is because on the original amp wires 5 , 6 , 13 , 14 ( connector C0491 )they were for the front door speakers ....on the logic 7 the same pins are for rear surround ( which you wont have )
The sub wires are the same on both amps connectors
connector C0491
PIN 7 - SUB LEFT -
PIN 8 - SUB RIGHT -
PIN 15 - SUB LEFT +
PIN 16 - SUB RIGHT +G4 Gone ...but not forgotten
20th Sep 2010 5:13 pm
nobbyclark
Member Since: 03 May 2005
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 1268
Cheers for that Wiggs. If the sub wires are the same, why is there next to no sound coming from the sub? Presumably it's because on the original amp there was an amplified signal going to the speakers, whereas with the Logic 7 it is just an unamplified signal to what should be an active sub?No longer a D3 owner but still subscribed to multiple threads!
21st Sep 2010 5:00 pm
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Sorry NC, somehow i seem to have missed your further posts to this thread.
As you may recall, i modified a Hi Line Loom for Logic 7 and have some documents i made detailing the changes required. As ever, i really don't mind helping out any Disco3.co.uk forum member as best i can and i will post them up shortly and maybe even do a bit of info on the parts / Pins and specific step by step process required. It certainly impressed me no end when i did mine, but then i did start out with just the basic low line 4 x 25 Watts
It is sadly not quite as easy as just doing a few pin swaps. But that being said its not that difficult or expensive either, and for anyone thinking to upgrade from Hi Line to Logic 7 too, here is a quick (well by my standards ) run down on it, starting with the base difference.
The Hi line Amp provides 6 channels of 50 Watts each, total 300 Watts.
1 for each of the 2 front doors that are then shared by the 3 speakers in each
1 for each of the 2 rear doors shared by the 2 speakers in each
2 are for the dual coil Sub woofer in the tailgate, which is passive (on a D3 its always passive no matter which system you have)
These 6 channels all come from the Green connector with the Grey being used only for the headphone sockets.
The Logic 7 AMP provides 12 channels of 50 Watts each total 600 watts.
1 for each of the 2 front doors that are then shared by the Mid and Tweeter speakers in each
Another 1 for each of the 2 front doors that are use soley for the Bass Speakers in each
1 for each of the 2 rear doors shared by the 2 speakers in each.
2 are for the dual coil Sub woofer in the tailgate.
2 are for the 2 D pillar surround speakers
1 is for the centre speaker.
Yes i can count, and that does make only 11. The fact is that that they simply do not seem to use the last 50 watt Channel in any known LR implimentation of this Amp. But even missing out on the extra 50 it's still a vast improvement.
On to the nitty gritty.
You have to move 4 pins in the green connector.
4 and 5 move to locations 3 and 4 and 13 and 14 move to 11 and 12, these previousy unused pins on Hi Line are used to power the front doos Bass speakers on a Logic 7.
You then need to add 4 new wires (two sets of speaker pairs) in the now vacant locations that will be ran to the Rear D pillar speakers.
You also have to add 6 wires into the Grey connector. 2 pairs will go to the front doors to feed the Mid and Tweeters and the final pair will go to the centre speaker. Note you only have to go to the Main to Facia loom as on a Hi line Facia loom the centre speaker is wired down to this connector already.
Buying rear D pillar covers with the speakers attached is not expensive and is a simple replacement job, and a money saving tip is to buy another one of these (either side) and rob the speaker from it to screw into the centre speaker location, use a bit of sticky backed foam to make a seal. It's the same speaker, yet costs less with the D pillar cover than on its own. A little nugget of knowledge me and TLO share.
The most notable challenge and change is that in the front doors themselves. On a Logic 7 system there are 2 pairs coming into each door, as opposed to just the 1 pair on high line. You have to add the extra pins to the door connector to use this or otherwise find a way to get the extra speaker wires to the door.
Re speakers.
Bearing in mind i started with Lo Line speakers, i simply fitted Logic 7 ones all round.
But if i had Hi line ones to start with, the only ones i think might actually need upgrading would be the front door Bass ones, and even then i would be tempted to try out the Hi Line ones, and see how they held up, after all 50 watts is not really a lot and they may well handle it just fine.
21st Sep 2010 7:40 pm
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Ah yea
It has become so common place nowadays, i almost forgot to mention the BBS MSV-2 aspect.
From anything as wild as fitting a TDV6 engine into a Defender, or just up speccing the D3 audio system from Hi Line to Logic 7, This simply cannot be done without the power and capability of the BBS faultmate MSV-2 equipment and it's unique ability to provide infinate editing of the vehicles configuration data.
You can either get your own Single vehicle system, or call upon the services of anyone who has invested in the full blown Multi Vehicle version (EG Wiggs) but you will definately need an MSV-2 syatem to modify your vehicles configuration to tell it you now have Logic 7 rather than hi line to get it all to work properly
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) but this doesn't translate to your (or my) ears when you are sat in the front.
) run down on it, starting with the base difference.
