Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13077
Surely the whole point of this type of "cheap" product is to get people in "poorer" countries interested in the brand. Selling it in India, for example, won't hurt the core LR stuff elsewhere but opens the brand to a huge market of up to 1 billion people who generally can't afford the full-on LR stuff.
If Tata sells the vehicles in the UK or the EU then they're undercutting LR.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
12th Jul 2017 10:55 am
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
Re: Devalue ?
BLFarrar wrote:
It's from the same "stable" but a different breed.....four legs, tail head analogy.
Floorpan sharing mega common.
It does the opposite of damaging the "brand" if it gives overall sales volumes on a lower spec cheaper to buy set of vehicles underpinning the prestige ones, let's face it the whole LR offerings are all crowded or crowding towards prestige, luxury = high cost.
The whole point will be where & how it's sold & whether there are clear up front links back to LR.
Separate dealers ?
Same site in a corner ?
Surprised at Fiat engine - but if it's cost effective, suits the places it's to be sold & used, has support there etc etc.
Why not a group made Ingenium ?
Going off at a tangent it worries me far more what & where from the Defender replacement will be as it may be the non D5 route for me to follow.
I guess no Ingenium because it is not a JLR product, it being sold in India under the Tata name.
Tata own lock stock & barrel J/LR. A marque with subbrands - which LR are differentiating into sales areas admittedly being sold side by side but not much "spread" in prices. It's prices you look at when you actually buy.
This locks LR into a marker sector that could be underpinned by simpler, less luxurious vehicles being brought in (which will increase overall sales volumes).
Ask yourself a question:
If (maybe) Tata made vehicles are made & sold in the U.K.
Does this bother you as there is some perceived (by others) downgrading. ?.....as the vehicle products are linked by overall ownership.
me personally it doesn't as I don't have a FFRR or a bargain basement whatever.....
Actually the situation was there before as Tata make & sell cars.
What's altered is a shared floorpan & maybe other bits
At some point Tata (maybe with or through J/LR as they are established in the U.K.) were going to have to look at lower cost, maybe mass market, vehicles made in a group companies plant.....what the heck.
What could damage the "brand" is not following logical evolutionary steps (D5 ?), not listening to existing customers & taking them with - it's said in business you never ever lose your existing customer base.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
12th Jul 2017 12:22 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
The Tata Safari was sold in the UK for a while, a copy of the D1 at the time, never really took off.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
12th Jul 2017 2:09 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
A D1 copy thats got to be the funnisets thing Ive read this week, it was so ugly it was unreal, fugly didnt even get close, it was a laughing stock, I used to work for a firm that used to have the tata franchise real quality stuff
I can rememebr the advert comparing the tata pos to the D1 lauding that the tata did the same as the LR for half the price
12th Jul 2017 2:35 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13077
Still for sale in India for the equivalent of £17.5k for the top spec version.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
12th Jul 2017 4:05 pm
timmyt79
Member Since: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Pemrokeshire
Posts: 585
Gazellio @ Prestige Cars wrote:
I like Fiat Engines - I have the 3.0 Fiat/Iveco Van engine in my Camper and its terrific. Torque is amazing.
I have the same engine in my camper...best engine i have ever had i reckon...wish i could fit it in my D3!
Pulls like an absolute train!.....the electrics on the other hand!....
12th Jul 2017 4:39 pm
dgardel
Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: Greater Venice
Posts: 2025
The tooling for the Freelander 2 was shipped to India on cessation of that model...but there must be some cross model commonality as this is the same as Ewok.
Tata aren't stupid...they have an opportunity to get world sales (if that's what's they want) by using what they've got & using the group distribution they already have.
Tata aren't as 3rd world as you'd imagine - they make thier own assembly robots, haveclinks with Daewoo in Korea, design studios in the U.K. Etc
The Tata model It all depends here on where they sell it...in the U.K.
In reality It could have been a Chinese "copy"
Instead it's to be an Indian "take-away".
It's not that long we were talking about the possibility of "Premium" J/LR models being built in Eastern Europe. Will these get Indian made / design 4x4 systems - Haldex for example ?
Tata realise with Brexit there may be hang ups. Maybe a smart move for them.
Look here - interesting:
http://www.tatamotors.com
Also agreements in place with VW-Sköda...which to me conjures all sorts of possibilities.
Links with Fiat-Chrysler link them to brilliant car makers.
I've scrutinised the still pictures badging clues.....?
Plus the number plates in the middle. :
It could be worse
- Tata need not have bought J/LR when the almighty "do no wrong" Ford sold Volvo, Aston-Martin & J/LR...
- J/LR could have crumbled not that many years ago they didn't because of Tatas deep pockets.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
12th Jul 2017 5:52 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
Discoveringcomfort wrote:
Don't see why it would devalue the brand, did Skoda devalue Audi by using the A6?
Yes but skoda used the outgoing a6 model shape, this on the other hand is current brand new to the market.
12th Jul 2017 6:15 pm
Discoveringcomfort
Member Since: 16 Sep 2015
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 637
Re: I seem to recall
BLFarrar wrote:
The tooling for the Freelander 2 was shipped to India on cessation of that model...but there must be some cross model commonality as this is the same as Ewok.
Tata aren't stupid.
Tata realise with Brexit there may be hang ups. Maybe a smart move for them.
It could be worse
- Tata need not have bought J/LR when the almighty "do no wrong" Ford sold Volvo, Aston-Martin & J/LR...
- J/LR could have crumbled not that many years ago they didn't because of Tatas deep pockets.
Not sure about the B word relevance but agree with the last bit.
If Tata had not bought JLR they may well have/would have gone down for ever or until someone wanted to buy the brand name only!Series 1 V8
Series 2 Hibrid V8
Discovery 3 HSE V8
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
That DS owners will be the immediate disgruntled ones if the car shown is brought over for sales here.
But what I'm interested in is just how they configure the vehicle:
Shape - as we've seen on vids
Floor pan chassis - as per FL2
Engine - buy in from Fiat-Chrysler (trade linked company).... maybe some 4wd technologies may flow thier way ?
Transmission - the 4wd bit....will it be a Tata or use the Haldex smart one
All the other toys - it has to compete at a local level in India with Jaoanese & Korean imports....so it may well have to have things that would be in place here too.
And where it's going to be sold.
I can't see the Tata brand being anywhere near or on same site as J/LR, especially with a "look alike"
Tata however can select the lower cost vehicles that would compete wher LR aren't even competing yet really easily.
The group links may be a unique selling point.
J/LR will never ever get to the stage of VW-Audi where almost the same vehicles can be differentiated cleverly, given a local family twist, thier own heritage - sell them side by side, without de valuing the "prestige" one.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
