Member Since: 18 Mar 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 127
I seldom post and am not a Discovery owner right now but my interpretation is that, regrettably, LR are only seeing new business opportunities in their eyes. They will pay lip-service to tradition and only if it serves the purpose of lineage in marketing terms. They will ignore the the middle England purchaser when there is a whole wide world out there which is a massive market, hugely affluent in parts and whose dulled pallet can be excited by very expensive luxurious products with a good British heritage.
They have invested HUGELY in the business and need to sell many, many more cars each year than they do right now over the next 10-20 years in order to reap the reward. Already the export market for the luxury end is, what, 70-80% of production so if someone like me says "that car is not going to work for me in Southampton or Birmingham or Glasgow and is too expensive and not in keeping with the tradition etc etc...." LR will barely register the concern and certainly not change course. When there are thousands of very wealthy punters in China, Brasil, Russia etc who can not only afford the car but the import tax as well without blinking an eye, what would you do if you were a manufacturer with a hungry shareholder who is currently watching his other investments tank? The rich factory owner in the Vladivostok LR showroom couldn't give a toss if the D5 has gone a bit posher - they'll just love it more.
27th Dec 2015 6:17 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
All this talk is just like when the D3 was coming out. It was going to be too expensive, too much technology, too ugly, too luxurious etc etc I even had a Jeep owner come up to me and tell me how ugly it was Nobody was going to by such a car, the designers had even forgot to put the crease all the way along the car.
I don't want a shed for my next car, Defenders are what they are and Discos are what they are. The new one will sell in its millions and when the D6 is unveiled it will be too expensive, too much technology etc etcDS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
27th Dec 2015 6:36 pm
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
I bought a D4 even though it was significantly more expensive, and to my eyes, nowhere near as good looking as my original D3. I bought it because it perfectly fitted my requirements in a working vehicle… square load capacity, drop down tailgate to work on, practical, safe and comfy. If the new one loses any of those essential items then I won’t buy it. Doesn’t matter how much technology they fit or how trendy Russians find it.
It really doesn’t matter to me how many they sell… I don’t need my buying decisions reinforced by popular demand, but then, LR don't depend on my custom anyway!
27th Dec 2015 7:39 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Vanguard wrote:
They have invested HUGELY in the business and need to sell many, many more cars each year than they do right now over the next 10-20 years in order to reap the reward. .
I'd say they are almost there now ...simplistic calculation I know but Tata have invested £11bn or so since 2008 ...but JLR already returned pre tax profits to the region of £10bn in the same period.
The brand has to keep looking forward not backwards 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
27th Dec 2015 7:50 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
27th Dec 2015 8:21 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
Hopefully LR have listened to the criticisms of the Disco Sport and doesn't replicate them in the D5 as I do like the look of the D5, especially if there is a blue colour like that available. If the entry level is no more expensive than £45k then I'm in.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
27th Dec 2015 8:45 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72779
Would be interesting if there is a £39,999.99 offering to get under the "premium" bar for the forthcoming VED changes. Probably not as that won't fit with the brand image.
27th Dec 2015 8:49 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
Good point.
It seems surreal that I could trade in a car that is heavier than the new car, which is supposed to be lighter and more economical, yet the old one costs less to tax.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
However good or bad the D5 is going to be, whatever the price, the facts speak for themselves, so for me, it will not be the ideal replacement for the D3/4 that I will be looking for down the line.
Overall, I happen to think LR are going wrong for the long term. No-one has any better idea of that than I - we don't have crystal balls; we can all only infer and guess, and that is, from what I see, my current reasoning.
Pelyma wrote:
All this talk is just like when the D3 was coming out.
You really think so?
We are now a dozen years and 6 new LRs down the line. The D4 > D5 is to be a very differen't move from D2 > D3 - in many ways, the opposite. The D3 was heavier, the new one is to be lighter. Did anyone really look at a base spec D3 and think it's too luxurious? Price wise, it's gone up already but it can't go up perpetually so we're at a different point to last time. Was there ever a concern over the D3s practical side, a larger vehicle than before, square and boxy with a big boot? It wasn't something I was concerned about at the time. When the D3 came out, did we all think it was for the mass market? No, many thought it was an acquired taste.
It's just not the same situation. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
28th Dec 2015 10:51 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
The original Base 5 seater D3's were around £27K ISTR
You can't get a D4 for less than £40K now 10 years later - granted its a much better spec'ed car - though STILL no Sat Nav which is absolutely RIDICULOUS for a £40K car
....but interestingly that's only a compound increase rate of just over 4% - so it must be the financial crash impact and knock effect on inflation and pay that makes the current prices seem so high....Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
28th Dec 2015 11:21 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
If they are "going wrong for the long term" now then god help them ....they were going nowhere until Tata came along 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
That's the point tough. You can't say I'm wrong, and I can't say you're wrong.
Tata come along and LR produce a new generation vehicles. What does that mean? Nothing. It's just one way, that happened. Had LR not been bought by Tata, you can't know what would have happened. Just because one thing works, doesn't mean it was the right/best thing.
Going nowhere before Tata? Well I don't call designing the L322, D3, RRS and FL2 going nowhere. They are the vehicles that have got LR to where they are now.
The vehicle market is a complex game and manufacturers need to hold ground when they gain it. There isn't a single business running in the world that has become a great success at the hands of accountants alone.
Dogs chase their tails; it's the way of the world. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
28th Dec 2015 11:59 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
I don't have to prove who is right or wrong ....just looking at the evidence can be a great indicator of the likely outcome....BMW invested but in reality just wanted the technology and eventually baulked it because it was a money pit...Ford wanted the brand but didn't invest in any way strong enough to make a real difference in generating a return. Tata threw money at it ...and importantly allowed the management on the ground to run it and let the design team loose. I can remember the very week in 2008 when there wasn't enough money in the bank to pay the staff wages ....now it's record investment, sales, turnover and profits year on year.
I'm sorry but it does mean a lot ....and that certainly would not have happened under the previous owners21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Last edited by DG on 28th Dec 2015 12:33 pm. Edited 1 time in total
28th Dec 2015 12:12 pm
Dom Harvey Lord of the Four Fingers
Member Since: 15 Apr 2005
Location: Dorset
Posts: 7454
Bottom line is LR are in business to make money, you can afford their cars or you can't, you either like them or you don't.2004 Discovery 3 - gone
2006 Discovery 3 - gone
2008 Discovery 3 GS - gone
2011 Freelander LE Special Edition - gone
2007 Discovery 3 XS - gone
2012 Discovery 4 GS - current
I'm not asking anyone to prove who's right or wrong. Abduction can give such wildly varying results... Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Nobody was going to by such a car, the designers had even forgot to put the crease all the way along the car.
Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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