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b+e licence/towing tin tent
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bigD
 


Member Since: 29 Apr 2008
Location: westmidlands
Posts: 190

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 3
b+e licence/towing tin tent

i have a b+e licence so i have no problem towing my tin tent
but a friend who goes with us does not have a b+e licence
but has the same van as us
now i know that if i dident have a b+e licence i wouldent
be able to tow the van i have but cant find anything on the net
that actualy says wot law is being broken and wot penalty he would face
if caught

can any one shed any light on this

regards bigd

ps friend seams to think he is not breaking any law
  
Post #59020525th Jan 2010 11:18 pm
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Rich71
 


Member Since: 21 Feb 2009
Location: Hitchin
Posts: 81

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Manual Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

I'm ready to be corrected but I'm sure that if your mate has had his licence a few years he's ok. It was a rule introduced recently for new drivers I think.
  
Post #59020825th Jan 2010 11:21 pm
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner 


Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
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United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

Driving otherwise than in accordance with his licence? Consequently no insurance etc.

If his licence was first issued before 1997 he will have automatic grandfather rights for B+E.
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Post #59020925th Jan 2010 11:22 pm
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amondeggs
 


Member Since: 03 Sep 2009
Location: Telford
Posts: 155

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

have a look at this , depends when he did his test !!

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...DG_4022564
  
Post #59021025th Jan 2010 11:22 pm
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Tom W
 


Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: peterborough
Posts: 208

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 GS Manual Zermatt SilverDiscovery 3

Penalty wise,could be 9 points and £900 fine Big Cry
  
Post #59025126th Jan 2010 4:33 am
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Russell
 


Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
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United Kingdom 

what car does he tow with might get underthe gross weight. Thumbs Up
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Post #59027826th Jan 2010 7:44 am
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DiscoDunc
 


Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
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England 2010 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Aintree GreenDiscovery 4

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...DG_4022564

some info here.
 Duncan
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Post #59029126th Jan 2010 8:17 am
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character
 


Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5779

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Alaska WhiteDiscovery 3

might also want to make him aware of the forthcoming changes regards a NEW licence catagory for a "medium size" towing combination with a vehicle mass of 4250kg Thumbs Up

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/thirddirective/
  
Post #59034026th Jan 2010 9:48 am
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bigD
 


Member Since: 29 Apr 2008
Location: westmidlands
Posts: 190

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 3

ok info i have is he is 26 years old and drives a d3
caravan is a bailey and the weights are
mass in running order 826kg

maximum technically permissible laden mass 1109kg

maximum user payload 247kg

essential habitation equipment 73kg

is this any more help

regards bigd
  
Post #59066226th Jan 2010 6:12 pm
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J@mes
 


Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
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England 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

the permissible laden mass of the tintent and the permissible laden mass of the discovery must come to less than 3500KG. which it doesn't.

so he needs a trailer license IMO.

Smile
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Post #59069326th Jan 2010 6:45 pm
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shanners
 


Member Since: 04 Oct 2008
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 309

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

Hiya Guys, we get a lot of enquiries of this nature and have also found information relating to the B+E Category not very forthcoming.

As a result, we have transferred all of the relevant information to our website and put it all in Plain English. Just click on the sponsors link above.

As it stands at the moment, if you passed your standard Cat (B) Car test after 1997 then you will no longer have 'Implied' or 'Grandfather' rights to tow a trailer in excess of 750 kgs

In order to do this you must take and pass a seperate DSA test to drive a combination of this category.

If the combined weight of both trailer and towing vehicle exceeds 3.5 tonnes then it is then classed as a medium goods vehicle Cat (C).

Be aware that VOSA and the Police are using ANPR to routinely stop drivers and are issuing fines of up to a thousand pounds with 9 penalty points.

If you cause an employee to use such a combination unlicensed, then Police will not only consider prosecuting the driver for having no insurance, but also the company MD under 'Use, Cause, Permit' Legislation.

As mentioned before, if the entire outfit is in excess of 3.5 tonnes then it will be classed as a medium goods vehicle and if used for the purposes of work will require a Tacho.

Shanners Thumbs Up
  
Post #59091926th Jan 2010 10:21 pm
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character
 


Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5779

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Alaska WhiteDiscovery 3

sorry beg to disagree, some of what you are quoting relates to using the vehicle "commercially" for hire and reward. Vosa do not have powers over private individual using their vehicle for non commercial activities, whereas the police do under the Road Traffic Act likewise the police are the ones who would proceed with a potential legal action.

That said, the total mass of the combination does excludes the towing vehicle kerb weights due to the D3 being catagorised as a "dual purpose vehicle" under Construction & Use/ Road Traffic Act and that the caravan/trailer is being used for non-commercial activities.

The restriction on the Gross Train Weight for B+E is 7000kg (in the UK), C1+E is 8250kg (107 restriction) under grandfather rights in any commercial situation. However on a B+E you can have a trailer/caravan of the type described so long as it falls beneath 1500kg unladdened weight in the case of non commercial or 1020kg in the case of "commercial activities" (although vosa will allow you to 1500kg in the case of commercial because our rules on 1020kg is considered anti-competitive within the EU).

I agree that the 26 year old driver does need to have passed his towing test and there's nothing to say he has'nt, but not a C catagory for the reasons mentioned. Thumbs Up

On the point of tacho, would'nt apply even if he had a 3.5ton van towing a caravan/trailer up to 3.5tons (assuming he has C1+E) so long as he could demonstrate that its being used for domestic/personal use the only thing he would have to be aware in such a case is that the caravan/trailer could not be anymore than 7m L x 7'6 W or wider subject to the trailer/caravan being towed not exceeding the width of the towing vehicle by any greater that 12" on either side, with the max train length being no more than 16.5 m Shocked
 

Last edited by character on 26th Jan 2010 11:50 pm. Edited 4 times in total 
Post #59095826th Jan 2010 11:12 pm
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TazDaz
 


Member Since: 07 May 2007
Location: South East Essex
Posts: 2858

United Kingdom 

bigD wrote:
ok info i have is he is 26 years old and drives a d3
caravan is a bailey and the weights are
mass in running order 826kg
maximum technically permissible laden mass 1109kg
maximum user payload 247kg
essential habitation equipment 73kg


bigD - your friend definately needs to have a B+E licence to tow that outfit with a D3 as he must have passed his test after 1977.
  
Post #59096726th Jan 2010 11:28 pm
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paulJ1
 


Member Since: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Stewarton, Scotland
Posts: 268

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 3

The caravan club, and the camping and caravan club both have technical leaflets on this.

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/practical-adv...nce-to-tow

Below is an extract... as character said, rules for commercial use are very different !

QI passed my driving test in 2000 and am now intending to tow a caravan. However, I hear there are towing restrictions for those who passed after a certain date. If so, when were the changes implemented, what are my current driving/towing entitlements with my B licence and how will these be affected if I take the additional test?

A A person who passed their test on or after 1 January 1997 may drive:
a) Towed outfits – driver restricted to a combined MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) of 3500kg and the trailer MAM must not exceed the unladen (kerb) weight of the towing vehicle (85% ratio remains strongly
recommended). If this MAM is to be exceeded, an E Test pass is required.
b) Rigid motor caravans without trailer – driver restricted to a MAM of 3500kg until obtaining a pass of the LGV Light Goods Vehicles) test, after which the driver is qualified to 7500kg MAM.
c) Rigid motor caravan towing trailer – provided the trailer does not exceed 750kg and the combined MAM does not exceed 4250kg, no further test is required for this type of outfit. However, if the trailer MAM exceeds 750kg
then a) applies for a vehicle less than 3500kg. Otherwise an LGV test plus an E test is needed.

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Post #59098326th Jan 2010 11:51 pm
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character
 


Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5779

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Alaska WhiteDiscovery 3

paul, just a small point on the tech side of vehicle mass of 4250kg, this does not apply in the UK, that's the new catagory of licence to be known as B96 or B69 coming out post Jan 2011 under the third amendment of licence catagories EU 2006 here, but current in other EU countries now.

See the consultation page of the DFT website on my thread above. Thumbs Up
  
Post #59099226th Jan 2010 11:59 pm
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