Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: plymouth
Posts: 6525
cranko
I wrote to car care on 7 august re the crank issue and whether they will pay for known faults....no reply so far....I intend to pursue in the next few days...
This initially caused some "friction" as ACPO (now NPCC) was a private entity and so exempted - until an application was made and accepted to include them under FOIA.
JLR are firmly NOT a public body so the act doesn't apply.I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
4th Oct 2019 2:10 pm
Dusty
Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1022
Can’t see LR doing anything anytime soon.
Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if every TDV6/SDV6 owner received a letter along the lines of ‘please bring your LR to the nearest main dealer for a bright and shiny new engine’
Especially as the new engine would more than likely be as prone to catastrophic failure as the old one Discovery 4 HSE
SDV6
2015
4th Oct 2019 3:31 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
I think the only thing that could be done would be to make the cost of a replacement engine cost neutral to JLR if the worst was to happen. They may have already done this because the price of a new engine went down recently.
However, I would think there are probably many contractual restrictions on the costs of replacement, because Ford makes the engine on behalf of LR.
I wonder what the deal was when JLR split from Ford? When they were one and the same, it would have been easier, but I suspect JLR maybe took on all warranty liability as part of the deal, and the engine crank issues didn’t become a known problem until after that split?
I may be wide of the mark?
4th Oct 2019 3:47 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
Aren’t all replacement engines reconditioned lumps rather than new ones from Ford?
4th Oct 2019 4:20 pm
Pigscovery
Member Since: 14 Aug 2014
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 35
DG wrote:
Pigscovery wrote:
I wonder if 'freedom of information' can get us the #failures , must be thousands globally.
You only have to work from the sales figures vs average failure rates from the likes of warranty direct to see that the numbers of overall engine failures should be in the region of 5-6 thousand.
As for Galwaygreens point ...anything can happen in the fast lane however that doesn't make it a safety issue because in law all others should be driving their vehicles with the anticipation of vehicles suddenly braking or stopping in front of them.
My view is it should be considered a safety issue. Loss of power steering, servo assisted brakes, unable to make it to an emergency area(smart motorways). Police advise calling 999 immediately if you brake down on smart motorways due to the risks to you and other road users. Think dark wet night with 7 family members in a stationary vehicle.
7th Oct 2019 10:35 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
But any motor can break down at any time for a multitude of reasons ....if the crank failing resulted in an immediate fireball then I would understand .....however, the fact that someone might not be paying attention nor allowing sufficient braking distance to any incapacitated vehicle and this might result in a collision is not the responsibility of the failed vehicle. Ask yourself who would be charged in any such scenario?21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
7th Oct 2019 10:57 pm
Dusty
Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1022
I know if you cut DG with a knife he bleeds Green blood
But I have to agree with him on this one.
I thought the way Watchdog tried to shoe horn it to being a safety issue was wide of the mark and did LR owners who have suffered the dreaded crank failure a disservice.
Watchdog would be better served telling us what percentage of cars suffer engine failure by way of manufacturing fault as a percentage of sales by a particular make.
That way LR could be called to task, or not as the case may be.
But I suspect such in depth investigation would be far too costly for the license payer Discovery 4 HSE
SDV6
2015
7th Oct 2019 11:25 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Quote:
I know if you cut DG with a knife he bleeds Green blood
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
Watchdog last week (Thursday I think) It should still be on I player.
8th Oct 2019 8:33 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8097
Yep, I’m watching it now. It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
8th Oct 2019 8:10 pm
Pigscovery
Member Since: 14 Aug 2014
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 35
DG wrote:
But any motor can break down at any time for a multitude of reasons ....if the crank failing resulted in an immediate fireball then I would understand .....however, the fact that someone might not be paying attention nor allowing sufficient braking distance to any incapacitated vehicle and this might result in a collision is not the responsibility of the failed vehicle. Ask yourself who would be charged in any such scenario?
Agree, once the said stricken vehicle is stationary it is the responsibility of all other road users to avoid it, but it is also the responsibility of the driver of said Disco to avoid causing an accident while trying to make it over to an emergency lane/lay-by knowing that they can only coast or brake. Possibly situations that result in knock for knock.
A level crossing would be an interesting place to 'fail' but that would be extremely remote, but bad luck for all.
The point I was really making was not a legal one, but occupants and other's safety is compromised by a failure which could arguably have been prevented/avoided by proactive action by JLR.
Such a pity the crank didn't let go when Clarkson was thrashing the nuts off a D3 climbing a mountain in Scotland. That would have been enough exposure.
The real impact is financially, yes. I invested a lot in an approved used car that is now worthless after less than 5 years.
2 of my close friends have D4s. Two of us have had the failure, the third is nervous now. If the number (UK/Europe) is in the thousands (which I reckon it could be - over 5 years of 2.7 and 10 years of 3.0) then maybe a group litigation could be attractive to a legal firm.
9th Oct 2019 5:22 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
There have been many litigation threats on here over the years - some really sounding very credible and watertight.
But I’ve yet to hear of one successful case. Unless gagging agreements accompany the payout?
9th Oct 2019 6:11 pm
lespes
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Sitting Down
Posts: 2232
Quote:
Agree, once the said stricken vehicle is stationary it is the responsibility of all other road users to avoid it, but it is also the responsibility of the driver of said Disco to avoid causing an accident while trying to make it over to an emergency lane/lay-by knowing that they can only coast or brake.
See the dash cam footage at 1:06, though not a smart motorway yet, Hard shoulder closed for repairs.
Sadly the lorry driver failed in his responsibility and not hard to see why, resulting in 3 deaths, due to a sudden and total power loss the Ford Transit minibus suffered.
Must of been in another clip I saw the Driver of the Lorry was praised for managing to reduce some speed before impact which probably helped avert a total wipe out of the mini-bus occupants. Accidents are oft a combination of extreme unlikely events but they do occur frequently and with more and more Smart motorways around would rather reduce some of the risks involved, especially as most car manufacturers nowadays just brush any untoward elements under the carpet and hope they can see it off before the model is replaced.
Not a car granted, but when the Boeing 737 max was crashing out of the sky, did the manufacture own the problem, of course not, insisted it was safe, would still be flying them now if it had its way, fortunately that decision was taken out of their hands, and perhaps the same should be applied to any motor vehicles that have suspected flaws.D4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
D4 HSE MY12 Marmais Teal: Gone. Missed a lot!
Freelander 2 SD HSE MY11 Silver:Thankfully gone.
D4 HSE MY11 Silver: Gone missed !
Range Rover Sport MY06 HSE Buck Blue: Gone missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Facelift MY Red Gone Missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Cobalt Blue: Gone Missed!
Discovery D1 Auto Oxford Blue Not missed at all!
Discovery D1 Avalon Blue First LR! missed!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
