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DISCO3.CO.UK > Webasto Fuel Burning Heater

How to build yourself a FBH controller
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jocky581
 


Member Since: 08 Mar 2015
Location: north norfolk
Posts: 21

United Kingdom 

stunning thread, congratulation on a really interesting piece of work, hats off to you. its a super add on for both the disco 3 and the RR sport(early models) I will be pm ing this soon if its still available
  
Post #144024410th Mar 2015 1:26 am
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comanr
 


Member Since: 26 Jun 2015
Location: gl
Posts: 2

Romania 

Guys, I love this thread, I am not a disco owner but I am in the middle of a nice installation on alfa romeo 156 Q4, and I really need some help.

My FBH is a thermo top C form an audi (Q7 I guess), on that car the FBH water pump is controlled by the cliamatronic module(auxiliary heating) so the water pump connector on FBH it has a dummy/false plug but this is not the problem.

I am controlling the FBH with the oval timer 1533 w-bus and I am using the relay output of the timer to start the climatic module of the car and the water pump with a relay, I also added a separate manual switch for the webasto pump to use it in emergency situation in case of a water pump failure(separation of the impeller), nothing complicated, now comes the bad news.
The heater works perfect from thermo test software but when started with timer 1533 works once, then it shows a fault on the display and indeed there is a fault I can't get rid of it :

customer specific fault 54
state: stored not actual
code: F5H
counter: 134 - it seems to me that the error is historical by the number of occurrence, I did not start the heater so many times since I own it, heater is like new , only 4 operating hours

this error is there no matter what, if I clear the codes it still exists but anyway the heater starts once from the timer after cleaning codes.

because of this code the timer 1533 cannot start the heater again, only by software it is possible, the next startup shows F--, it means fault.
when scanning for codes I find this crazy code 54, do you have any idea what what can I do to solve the problem?

Thank you very much.


LE:

the problem is related to CAN bus, in order to re-use this unit (using W-BUS) to another car different from audi/vw, the mainboard of the unit must be "flashed" and the FBH will show no bus faults, chip is motorola 908, so in theory problem is solved, or at least I hope so, I will come back with feedback after that, maybe it helps others in process or retrofitting these units to their particular cars, bye.

Long time after LE:

I managed to reflash the board, money thrown away, there is no need to do that because even with no erros on the unit the oval timer 1533 shows F-- after startup , so I found another solution to the problem, you can use a diode to separate signals so the timer does't get any answer from the heater, you make a unidirectional link, I user one 1N4004 diode inline with the w-bus wire.

As long as the heater is unlocked it will start/stop perfectly everytime from the timer, if it doesn't work for some reason you have to hook up ThermoTest and see what is wrong, now my heater has a very old firmware and shows no errors even if it runs out of diesel(still has all the protection systems and start up procedures ok) I wish I didn't do this mod because the heater was not locked but nobody tells you the trick with the diode, anyway, sharing is knowledge! bye.
 

Last edited by comanr on 5th Sep 2015 8:38 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #149307526th Jun 2015 12:57 pm
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comanr
 


Member Since: 26 Jun 2015
Location: gl
Posts: 2

Romania 

updates attached to older post.
  
Post #15250555th Sep 2015 8:36 pm
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Fyfasan
 


Member Since: 06 Apr 2015
Location: Kolding
Posts: 42

Denmark 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

hi there

i have read these post a few times...

think it is great people a so clever... would love i knew that much about electric parts

i can also see people develope their own... so as a newbie i get a little confused Very Happy

is there any one who will share a shopping list (online, that sends to whole world) of what i need to build one.. or at least try to Smile

would really love to have one this winter..

Thomas
  
Post #154821621st Oct 2015 8:13 am
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cdtsilva
 


Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1

United Kingdom 

tobouk wrote:
alex_pescaru wrote:
Thanks for the update! Thumbs Up

Or, alternatively, you can use any LIN bus driver available.


Here's my latest contribution after Alex's good share spurred some action from me.
Also in answer to your PM (harrythespider) here is photo of my latest board using pic16f1829lin chip.
This has everything on board e.g lin driver chip and seems very stable using on board osc. It's only the size of a 10p piece and is triggered as before using headlamp/ignition_on or as I've done the t80 transmitter unit, only because I already had one, but any tr/rx unit that gives an output can be used. I bought a load of pcb's from china and adapted them for this project but soldering the ssop pic16f1829lin chips on is not for the faint hearted. Top marks Discostick for your beautiful unit.
I have put comments on software, which is Alex's just rejigged for this chip. In the the spirit of this post I'ii make them available, or for anyone that doesn't feel able to build their own I have some spare boards but would have to order some parts in PM me.

Cheers all

Tony


http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/use...829LIN.png

http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/use...lin_v2.zip

Update...tided/commented wbus.c up, have added 2 more items, heater pump running led output and jumper to select 30/15 mins time option.

enjoy.


Great stuff. I was planing to design one of these using an arduino, but cant beat this design. When I have some time I'll design a custom PCB, if others are interested.

Now a few questions: I have an electric vehicle conversion and wish to use one of these pumps to supply heat to the traction batteries/interior. Am I Right to assume this works right out of the box without any of the original car wiring/ECU?

Has someone tested this in other thermotop V pumps, other than the range rover versions?

For the versions without the built in coolant pump, how does the unit know the pump is running? Does it simply operate until it overheats, assuming the pump its there, or does it need some acknowledgement that the pump is operating prior to start?

Thanks
  
Post #155391731st Oct 2015 4:09 pm
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parrafin23
 


Member Since: 04 Dec 2011
Location: Buskeud
Posts: 647

Norway 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

When it comes to home automation.. I got a starter kitt that uses remote to enable/disable/dim electrical lights amongst other things it can do. Its Telldus Live : http://live.telldus.com/

Can this be used to remote start the FBH??

Mr.P
  
Post #15860092nd Jan 2016 9:24 am
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jobster
 


Member Since: 08 Jul 2012
Location: Hilversum
Posts: 591

Netherlands 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

Chris532 wrote:
Any more for sale guys ?

Same question.
 RLD Sump Guard
GVIF & rear camera
New FBH via Dan
BAS Remap with IIDTool
 
 
Post #15864213rd Jan 2016 12:08 am
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gruodiz
Site Supporter 


Member Since: 16 Nov 2011
Location: Klaipeda
Posts: 273

Lithuania 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

I bought one years ago and never fitted. Let me know if I should start searching for it in my garage Very Happy
  
Post #15864763rd Jan 2016 10:00 am
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gsxr_11
 


Member Since: 05 Jan 2016
Location: Liberec
Posts: 2

Czech Republic 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

tobouk wrote:
No, above, this is simulating webasto heater/controller comms saves playing in the cold. You can also use it for webasto/controller/timer/T91 live comms as well. Do search on web for it. Smile


Unfortunately I found this thread too late. Would there be one kit for sale?
  
Post #15877265th Jan 2016 2:02 pm
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spiri439
 


Member Since: 26 Jan 2011
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 5


Hello i am new to can diagnostics, I require some advice, i have a range rover sport 2006 with installed webasto, i purchased the 1533 controller and it works fine when the car is asleep, but if i remove the can wires from the webasto it tries to start then shuts down, can you give me some advice on what am i doing wrong?
  
Post #15899789th Jan 2016 3:30 pm
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gucio1983
 


Member Since: 30 Dec 2014
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 14

Poland 

Hi. Here are the config bits that i have used with pickit3 software, pic16f1819lin and ttobo3 firmware. The file is in my gallery:)

I have used pickit3 software (on win xp),pic16f1819lin and ttobo3 firmware. First start program and set device family to Midrange 1.8 v min, close it. Conect pic 16f1819lin (dont use extermanl voltage and internal regulator, only programing header) to pickit3 programing header and start software, load ttobo3 firmaware, set config bits and program it:)
  
Post #159960226th Jan 2016 9:42 am
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ThermotopVday
 


Member Since: 18 Feb 2016
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 4

United Kingdom 
Help please, Tobouk / Alex

Newbie here to Disco3 site, so please forgive me for diving in feet first and asking for advice.

Have to 1st say that you guys rock Bow down .... with reference to DIY FBH pic controller circuit .... fantastic mix of various designs! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

I'm about to start building Tobouk's (alex_pescaru's rejigged design) single chip controller but have hit an issue with which 16F1829LIN chip to buy.

First of all I stupidly rushed in and bought the wrong chip ..... Whistle Whistle
*** NOTE TO THE UNAWARE .....that a PIC16F1829 IS NOT the same as a PIC16F1829LIN ***
..... both above have totally different pinouts and different internal structure even though they are both 20 pin casings.

I then found that RS Components UK list two versions of the correctly named PIC161829LIN chip ....
Part # 807-3839 ..... PIC16F1829LIN-I/SS
and also,
Part # 823-3778 .... PIC16F1829LIN-E/SS

When I downloaded both datasheets and compared internal memory and structures, there are quite a few internal differences, which I guess could maybe lead to program code address issues and perhaps a non working project when programmed with the posted firmware hex file.

Please (@Tobouk ... and perhaps Alex) can you take a quick look and let me know which RS part number is best suited to your firmware coding?

many thanks, really appreciate any help/advice on this,
ThermotopVday
  
Post #161237218th Feb 2016 10:09 pm
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner 


Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 16861

Wales 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

The I and E designation in that section of the part number is the temperature range code.

I is industrial grade: -40 to +85 deg C
E is industrial grade: -40 to +125 deg C

Welcome to the site Smile
 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know! 
 
Post #161240118th Feb 2016 11:03 pm
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ThermotopVday
 


Member Since: 18 Feb 2016
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 4

United Kingdom 

Quote:
The I and E designation in that section of the part number is the temperature range code.

I is industrial grade: -40 to +85 deg C
E is industrial grade: -40 to +125 deg C


Thanks Martin for so quick of response, that's great news, .... so either will do the job?

.....must also be an improvement in programming space, as "E" is listed as having only 8k flash space and "I" has 16k flash space.

It is strange that Microchips original datasheet doesn't list these changes.
Maybe its a fault of RS compare tool.
What was worrying me was that RS compare tool shows
"I" version as having no UART channel ("E" version has 1)
"I" version has 5 timers ("E" version has timers separated as 1, 4) .... and
"I" version has 1 PWM units (whereas "E" version has 2)

I'm maybe too cautious now, having previously had another head scratchin coding experience with address ranges swapped about due to slight differences in another PIC upgraded chip.

So maybe RS has really boobed with their compare tool .... I'll crack on and get the order in at last!

Again, thank you for your time / help. Thumbs Up
  
Post #161242218th Feb 2016 11:52 pm
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner 


Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 16861

Wales 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

The differences in specification (other than temp range) between those part number is an error.

I've used the RS product codes you gave, and the datasheets are identical.

The kinds of differences you have listed would only occur between totally different processor model numbers.

The choice of Industrial or Extended temperature range has no impact on the device spec.

Either will be fine for you to use Smile
 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know! 
 
Post #161255519th Feb 2016 11:55 am
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