Member Since: 15 Jan 2019
Location: Co.Down
Posts: 6
Should I buy a Discovery 4? V8? For full time workhorse.
I currently drive a Mitsubishi Shogun. I apologize.
I am a gardener, so use the Shogun for 99.9% towing, a heavy trailer with commercial lawn mower. Probably pulling 2500-2750kgs. Its getting agey, and I'm trying to work out where to go next. A Discovery is easily 100times superior to the Shogun, and has various significant advantages (Like the low box not locking a centre diff, split tailgate that will actually open and not hit jockey wheel).
Pickups are too long and poor turning lock for some of the properties I go to. Vans don't have a low box or 4wd (Some steep gravel drives, fwd with trailer on I likely wouldn't get up). New transit custom is coming out with a haldex unit AWD and torque converter auto box, which is worth a look. Its 8" longer than my current Shogun, but a Discovery would be a nicer thing to own and drive/kit out/toy with.
This is to be my bread and butter, so I need it to be reliable. I'm nervous about the whole crankshaft issue on the diesel D4s, and feel that if I went for a D4, I'd need the guts of £10k sitting as an emergency fund. I think it would put a cloud over my ownership, a constant fear of dread (I had that with the D3 we had; loved it, but every ding sound, you shut your eyes and prayed it was low washer fluid).
I currently get 15mpg towing with the auto shogun. I only do about 7000miles per year. I'm wondering if I should be seriously considering a petrol V8 model, (Presumably) imported from Japan. I would anticipate similar mpg from it (Better autobox should help), and cheaper petrol it'll probably work out similar in terms of fuel cost. But it'll sound great and removes a big risk factor.
Just wondering what everyone's opinion is. My livelihood will depend on it, she'll be kitted out/shelved for tools, and it'll spend its entire time towing a fair lump of a trailer. Is a diesel D4 just too risky? Is a 5.0 V8 just too much of an awkward gamble in the UK (I'm thinking of parts availability).
I know the V8 has timing chain guide issues, but they appear to be relatively easily sorted, could be done preventatively, and doesn't appear to have the same career-threateningly scary issues.
Keen to hear other folks take on this; what you would do and what everyone's thoughts are. Thanks for reading and any feedback
13th Jun 2023 3:51 pm
sasdiscos
Member Since: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 886
Buy a Ford ranger if you want a work horse and reliability.
Steve.You remind me of a younger me, not much younger mind...perhaps even a little older!
13th Jun 2023 4:39 pm
Willie.
Member Since: 15 Jan 2019
Location: Co.Down
Posts: 6
I love the look of the New Ranger, and I'm a big Ford fan. But a Ranger is nearly 2ft longer than a Discovery with over 2ft bigger turning radius. Less secure, not as handy load area as well. Probably draws more attention if fitted with utility canopy with side entry, and tools not kept in a nice dry/insulated cabin like they would be in a jeep.
13th Jun 2023 4:53 pm
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2439
Depends if you carry a stump grinder or not! and or how much space you need.
Pickup for me also, or a 110 utility wagon and trust me I like the V8.
13th Jun 2023 4:55 pm
sasdiscos
Member Since: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 886
There is only 2 petrol v8 d4s for sale currently that I can see and they are very expensive for a 10 plate car.
Steve.You remind me of a younger me, not much younger mind...perhaps even a little older!
13th Jun 2023 9:35 pm
sasdiscos
Member Since: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 886
If you want petrol, I think the ranger is now available with the 2.5 v6 ecoboost twin turbo.
Should sound pretty good.You remind me of a younger me, not much younger mind...perhaps even a little older!
13th Jun 2023 9:38 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13912
Either get a decent pick up or D4 3.0l eight speed and put the difference aside between the V8 and D4 3.0l for any work that needs doing etc. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
13th Jun 2023 10:36 pm
Willie.
Member Since: 15 Jan 2019
Location: Co.Down
Posts: 6
Thanks for the feedback guys. Interesting to hear as I thought it would have been a case of "BUY THE V8!!"
I would utterly love the Ranger; but I genuinely don't think I could make it work for me. Personally, as a private car, it'd be amazing. But for towing, its 2ft longer than my current setup. A couple of places I go into at the moment, I'm right on the limit of getting turned, having to jack-knife the trailer (i.e. multipoint turn and then turn the jeep right tight round to the drawbar) to get turned. If I went for a Ranger, I would certainly have to drop that customer, and at least 2 others.
The petrol Ranger is only available in the Raptor, which has less towing capacity than the normal ones. Its a shame they don't do a naturally aspirated v6 petrol as high spec ghia style model.
Not trying to be contentious, but genuinely believe that a pickup is out for me due to the extra length (And turning circle - which combined is going to be a nightmare). I've a mate does the same work and uses a SWB Landcruiser - he refuses to even go to LWB for similar reasons!
How much, realistically would you need for a crank snap rebuild? Assuming its best case and doesn't wreck rings around it. I've seen quotes of £18k etc on here. Its not really feasible to have that kind of money sitting in a pot for a breakdown. Even getting a keen local guy its bound to cost up near £10k?
I really don't want to end up with another Shogun or even worse, a Landcruiser. I really wanted a Landmark to waft along in luxury. But guess if you guys are saying Ranger, you're pretty well set that the D4 is just too risky.
An alternative as PJM said is a 110 Utility, but I'd need to drive one to see how bad the turning radius is. They are 200mm shorter than the shogun, so that's an advantage, and they look utterly class. Bonkers money though, and completely chalk and cheese from a D4 in terms of comfort. Transit Custom AWD probably makes more sense, great lock, short, stacks of space...but easy broke into and more inviting to theives than a jeep.
Bummer - thought I was onto a winner with the D4 V8!
13th Jun 2023 10:55 pm
KPTV8
Member Since: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Itinerant
Posts: 136
Still plenty D3 V8s around (4.4L), I've had three since 2012 and despite several well-known Disco 3&4 reliability problems I still rate them much more good than bad.
Currently have a 2010 Jap. import D4 V8 5.0L which has been FAB, but just yesterday let me down with totally jammed parking brake. The D4 5.0L is HARD to find, so do consider the D3 4.4L.
You're in Co.Down ? I'd suggest head up to these guys nr. Ballymena for a consultation, they have LOTS of relevant D3&4 experience - https://www.dnavehicleservices.co.uk/ .
The V8 4.4L engines are wonderful laid-back workhorses, I never heard of anyone suffering a V8 engine failure; none of my reliability problems have related to engines.
All D3s & D4s have complex electrical and electronic systems, therefore more to go wrong than with less sophisticated cars; you just have to be aware you're not trundling around in a simple Series LR.
My experience has been that the worst source of trouble is follow-on consequences of wet front floorpan recesses; if you find moisture on the steel floorpan beneath the HUGE thick padding under the carpets then do expect over time to suffer numerous bizarre and puzzling electrical problems, some of which can take ages to diagnose. These faults can develop over time because the damaging electrolytic impact on wiring builds gradually in presence of water.
HINT !! - D3&4s with NO sunroof are less likely to have suffered wet floorpans.
I often tow an ex-MOD Penman trailer. On open roads you can nearly forget you're towing - and maneuvering (sp ?) and reversing in tight spaces is generally easy with the D3&4 amazing turning circle and excellent mirrors.
Cheers & good luck ))
P.S. Wet floorpan failure is not unique to Landrovers - I had a loom fire in a Vaux. Cavalier due to water dripping into a footwell Jbox. Insurance write-off.
14th Jun 2023 6:49 am
G3Z
Member Since: 16 Dec 2018
Location: South Wales
Posts: 537
What about the previous generation RR Vogue 4.4 TDV8?Defender 110 2.4 TDCi Utility Station Wagon.
2007 Disco 3 GS TDV6 Manual
200,000+ mile club 😎
14th Jun 2023 7:04 am
RogB
Member Since: 15 Jun 2018
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 1651
here comes the curveball.......
how about a VW Transporter 4Motion SWB ?
There are lots about of all ages, manual/DSG Auto, various power levels but all can be remapped to some degree, Crew cab (good for family use)or remove the seats for a full van. Easily decked out with shelving and IIRC can tow 3T+
Friend of mine has his own plumbing/building business and has a 2018 T5.1 2.0D with DSG, AWD, rear bench seats and every other extra. Tows his twin axle caravan all over the country and also uses it for all work tools etc. He loves it.2011 D4 XS 305 MY12 - gone but not forgotten
14th Jun 2023 7:53 am
Willie.
Member Since: 15 Jan 2019
Location: Co.Down
Posts: 6
Thanks very much folks, really do appreciate everyone taking the time to reply. I've been mulling over this for a while, and struggling to make a decision. So really appreciate your input. Here's a spreadsheet to make you all laugh! This was to help me try and decide. Its 99% work use, so the odd time she'll be off the trailer and I would like something enjoyable to drive in my rare free time.
Click image to enlarge
Regarding the curve ball - I do love the look of the Transporters, and had been thinking down that line. Our family car is a crew cab Transit Custom! The DSG box puts me off. I know that probably sounds mad, but my Landcruiser mate has a Tiguan with DSG that he used for towing and ended up buying an older Landcruiser instead. The DSG is seemingly a great box for normal driving, but for continual towing, its hard on the clutches and is finikety. A standard auto with torque converter, although maybe not as nice to drive, is going to be more suitable to being permanently chained to 2.7t trailer. I be reversing up steep slopes while turning quite often, and even in the (torque converter auto) Shogun, I end up dropping her in to the low box as it feels so harsh on her. So it'd be brutal on a manual or DSG if no low box.
Older RR V8s - a large part of me thinks they would really be the ticket for me. But 2 main things putting me off. First one is that they can look dated. A similar year Disco still looks fresh and modern. The RRs, I dunno why, have this whiff of council estate paramilitary leadership about them! The other factor is customer perception. I land up in to folks houses to mow their lawn or cut their hedge, and the motor you're in does cast an impression. If a builder turns up in a scrappy transit with the sills rotted off her, you do feel different than if he turns up in an immaculate metallic grey Sprinter with led lights on the side steps (And all working). I feel if I had a really nice RR, there's a risk some customers would feel like you're ripping them off. "Look at yer man, sailing about in a Range Rover mowing lawns".
I do think the exception to the above is the RR Classic, I think it is universally accepted as a "car guys" motor, but to get a really nice one you're paying D4 money and its not going to drive anywhere near as nice...and be a constant work in progress I suspect.
KPTV8 - I totally get what you're saying and thanks very much on the heads up on the under carpet leak. Didn't know that. I'm in no rush, so if we conclude the D4 V8 is the way to go, I'd be waiting and holding out for the right one. In your experience/opinion, is the D4 V8 considerably better than the D3? What sort of mpg would you be getting? I get a steady 15mpg in the Shogun.
I also get what you mean about the complicated electrics and all the other gubbins that can cause issues. But I wonder how many modern cars you could buy that aren't equally as complicated now. There's the modern Ranger and sure everything in the 4wd system can be controlled through the touchscreen and radar sensors built into the rear taillamps (So they're about £1400 a lamp when you back her into a wall). I appreciate the D3/D4 are complicated, but I'm not sure if they're any more complicated/less reliable than any of the modern equivalents. I wonder if the Discos were just ahead of their time so got the heat first!
Actually have a D3 here currently, that I'm going to sell. Its an older manual, no roof rails and for me to get her sorted out to how I want it would cost a bit much, considering I've a fresher Shogun which I'd put a few quid into already - it makes sense to let the D3 go for now and buy something closer to what I need. I towed with it for a while to try it (Was our family car before Transit) and it was exactly as you say - wouldn't know you'd the trailer on. Great mirrors, low box with no locked centre diff, so could get clutch out in reverse in low and creep her up hills and do tight turns.
If the cranks weren't such a common occurrence, I'd not even have posted - I'd just buy a D4!
Have you found getting parts for the import V8 engine ok? Insurance no problem? Do you think its a viable proposition for me, if you think I'm barmy even considering it?
14th Jun 2023 9:33 am
chugga90
Member Since: 13 Aug 2014
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 434
Volkswagen Transporter will not legally tow the weight you have advised.
2.5 ton is maximum for them.
Also, unless you find one that someone has specified the low range crawler gear thing. You would not get the potential for that.
They are great tow vehicles. But not a Land Rover. I think you will knock the testicles out of it constantly towing at the max on steep slopes and pushing it hard.Discovery commercial tdv6 auto 2013
Volkswagen t6 lwb Kombi dsg 4motion 2018
Volkswagen t5.1 lwb single cab tipper 2013
Discovery commercial sdv6 auto 2014 gone and not really missed.
Range Rover Tdv8 gone
Freelander 2 I6 very sadly gone
VW t5 Dsg gone and missed
14th Jun 2023 5:47 pm
sasdiscos
Member Since: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 886
Xc90 will do 2.4 tonnes. Worth a look.
Steve.You remind me of a younger me, not much younger mind...perhaps even a little older!
14th Jun 2023 8:03 pm
sasdiscos
Member Since: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 886
Forget that, just re read your requirements.You remind me of a younger me, not much younger mind...perhaps even a little older!
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