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mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
  
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics
This link describes the connectors on an OBD2 plug as found in the Disco3.
One of them should be the CAN... just now need to confirm my device is CAN enabled
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 5th Nov 2010 8:24 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
 
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Running centrafuse on a netbook in my D3. It can read OBD2 signals, I was wondering what I could read through the comm port in the D3 and what cable adaptor would I need? “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 6th Nov 2010 1:13 am |
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mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
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It sounds like you already have the kit if you're reading OBD2 data.
There's only one port as far as I know.
How are you reading data now?
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| 6th Nov 2010 8:46 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Not reading it yet it is just that the software can read OBD2 data. Wondering if it worth connecting it and waht I would bew able to read. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 6th Nov 2010 8:51 am |
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mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
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caverD3 wrote:Not reading it yet it is just that the software can read OBD2 data. Wondering if it worth connecting it and waht I would bew able to read.
If you look at this link and follow the references you'll be able to find out the generic data that can be read as part of the OBD2 standard ==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics
Here is some info about what the Centrafuse software will do from an OBD2 perspective ==> http://forums.fluxmedia.net/faq.php?faq=obdii
I'm not familiar with which hardware Centrafuse supports but that link mentions ElmScan hardware. I'd be inclined for the cost to get one of the cheap OBD2 - USB interfaces from eBay and try it. For £10-20 it's easier than spending half a day searching the internet to find out.
Let us know what you find.
Matt
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| 6th Nov 2010 11:17 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Thanks Matt.  “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 6th Nov 2010 11:43 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
  
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mattgreen wrote:I'd be inclined for the cost to get one of the cheap OBD2 - USB interfaces from eBay and try it. For £10-20 it's easier than spending half a day searching the internet to find out.
No need....it won't work - at least not in the way you're hoping. (although I get the feeling Caver is being a little bit less ambitious than Matt in what he wants to display)
You'll probably be able to pull some generic data from the EMS, but that's about it.
Note that Centrafuse cannot read OBDII data at all.....Centrafuse is only a software layer and can display the decoded data output from an OBDII reader such as the elmscan ones.....you might be able to populate a few of the built-in displays in Centrafuse, but not much else.
Wiggs spent a lot of time playing with OBDII readers including ones with his iPhone and got very basic results.
If you just want some fairly basic data such as that displayed by the Scangauge, then it could be fine and certainly isn't a bad idea , but Matt is talking about multi-module access and this is way beyond what is possible with an elmscan. 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 6th Nov 2010 2:34 pm |
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mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
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Hi Paul,
the OBD2 device I have is basically a serial-bus to USB convertor (USB also being a serial bus). I think all the intelligence will have to be in the software (it will have to address modules, decode & encode messages and data etc).
Do you know if the ElmScan device does a similar job to the basic interfaces?
As far as I can tell all that the OBD specifications really give us is:-
a) a standard physical interface connector (16 pin D shape)
b) pin connections for various low level protocols (CAN, K-bus, L-bus and a few others)
c) generic parameters that most vehicles should provide
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| 6th Nov 2010 2:56 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Not wanting the whole lot or I would run Faultmate.
Centrafuse has such things as:
speed, revs, air intake temp, coolant tempair, flow rate.
Just wondering if it is worthwhile bothering, depends on what I can read from the D3. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 6th Nov 2010 3:20 pm |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
 
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OBD, OBDII and EOBD legislation simply forced vehicle manufacturers to provide a "By the Book" way for third party manufacturers producing cheap "by the book" equipment to access a very limited amount of Emmision related only information from the engine management. The connector, acceptable communication protocols, format of data and Fault codes up to P1000 were all defined. This is also where the service reminder function came into being.
The "Book" defined standard did go much further, but this was not legislated and only VAG followed this path, resulting in in the ability for any third party to also produce cheap equipment for those vehicles, like the excellent VAG COM.
The OBD/ OBDII or EOBD legislation might have seemed a good thing for consumers, however before this legislation became law, manufacturers were pretty easy going about the provision of access information to their systems. In being forced to provide certain information however, all this changed and LR along with most others then made everything else very secrative and proprietary. European block exemption regulation
BER1400/2002 has tried to rectify this, unsuccessfully i might add, as it simply contains too many exploitable loom holes. The independent IKE study reported that Ford simply lied about their complience degree !!!
The bottom line is that you can indeed connect a "By the Book" bit of equipment to a Disco 3 or 4 via the "by the Book" connector and it will send a "by the book" request for information on all "By the Book"
legislated protocols using the "by the book" ECU address of &h33.
The Disco 3 / 4 EMS and possibly the Auto Box will respond exactly as it is legislated to do so and provide all legislated data in the correct "By the book" format.
sometimes this even provides P codes above 1000 which can be decoded by a look up table although it must really be ECU rather than manufacturer specific.
To us, we have always reagarded this OBD OBDII or EOBDII legislated access route and the information it can provide as nothing less than a toy or gimmick that ultimatey detracts from real access to real information.
In 15 years of development of software that now covers all models of Land Rover. we have never utilised or addressed a single ECU using any "by the book" &h33 as an access address. In fact most often we use an unknown back door left in by some technician that we doubt even his boss knows about, let alone Land Rover.
Most folk who invest in one of our systems, has, and never will have any appreciation at all of just what really goes on behing the scenes when they simply press a button on our system and get a totally fuss free and fully working result.
Our speciality is after all making the impossible, possible to even your average layman, with but the simple editing of a page and / or press of a button.
I know many baulk at the cost of our equipment, but i guess now more than a few will be a little more appreciatve of the value of their investment, in respect of the real cost behind the ability to provide it at all.
I know just what it costs to provide and am dammned sure no one else could ever do the same for less.
After all the ability to obtain and translate 4F B3 E7 into meaningful Fault code text from the EPB ECU is not something any Tom Dick or Harry can readily or easily do, and anyone trying, will quickly learn to appreciate the time and costs involved in doing so will easily result in a more expensive product than we already provide.
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| 8th Nov 2010 8:03 pm |
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anglefire
Member Since: 09 Mar 2010
Location: In the Club House
Posts: 4180
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I think there area couple of things to say here.
1. It may be possible for someone to crack the code and get in and read the data, decode it and produce a device that works.
2. It may also be possible that someone code write the code back to change the CCF.
After all it has been done.
However, as it has been done and can be purchased for a reasonable cost considering the R&D, why would anyone else want to? Reading is one thing, but writing? I'm not sure that I would want something bodged up in the garage that writes to the CPU's to change something - how do you really know what it's changed?
I'm sure that it would take more than a grand to do all the checks and balances and prove that it is safe.
As an academic exercise, of theorecticals fine, but otherwise? Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
_________________________________________________
Disco Picture Website Here
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| 8th Nov 2010 8:17 pm |
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mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
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BBS SPY - enough of the sales pitch ...I'm sure you're pretty handy at programming and I'm sure your product is great and I'm pretty certain you'd love me to stop asking questions that demystify the whole thing but you don't need to scare me away from being able to translate 4F B3 E7 into a meaningful EPB fault code.
Quote:...is not something any Tom Dick or Harry can readily or easily do, and anyone trying, will quickly learn to appreciate the time and costs involved in doing so...
Luckily I do have a significant appreciation for the costs of software engineering, having run a technology company with a team of 10 programmers working for me. But thanks for the concern.
Quote:...will easily result in a more expensive product than we already provide
Hmm, not sure I agree 100% - it may cost more, it may cost the same, it may cost less. It all depends upon the approach taken. I dare say it should cost the same or less if one is being basically efficient about it. But let's not confuse cost with price - Google build systems that cost $millions but the price to the end user is $zero.
Now I know you're pretty keen to not see any other businesses step into "your territory" but my original question was not about building a business - it was a technical question about the CAN bus interface. I seem to have solicited half a dozen warnings that I shouldn't go there...
...but it's my car, my CAN Bus and my ECUs. In fact, the faults in there are all mine too (as I caused most of them  ) and in the true spirit of the Block Exemption I wish to be able to look at this stuff without having to rely on any 3rd party - I may have to for expediency but I want that to be my choice, not have my hand forced.
So, my original question could be re-phrased thus:-
Has anyone had any experience, good or bad, in using a cheap & nasty OBD2 <-> USB interface to access the non EOBD/non generic data on the bus? I appreciate this would require some programming/hacking experience.
I shall of course keep €200 to one side to purchase one of those lovely shiny blue boxes as and when...
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| 8th Nov 2010 9:18 pm |
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ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
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Matt
As before I too am intrerested in what can be done. Im in awe of what Colin has done - amazing kit especially packing it into a robust portable platform. When funds allow I'd like to get one - I would buy a Faultmate but as it dosen't do service resets I gotta save up more to get the full MSV 
I'm interested in using an OBD reader just for reading params from the bus for sensors like height, diff lock up etc but I'm guessing its going to take lot of trial and error just to get those readings.
Its a shame theres not a cut down reader availble (BBS ???  ) ..... with a nice USB interface so I can run it to my carputer. More than happy to code the interface and a plug in to Centrafuse.
DUnno if there is enough interest for this as I guess we are in the minority.....
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| 8th Nov 2010 9:49 pm |
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