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mobyone
Member Since: 23 Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 394
  
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| Can't conquer the hill!!! |
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OK fella's. I need help. Unfortunately I've been shamed  into failing to get to the top of a little hill last weekend whilst out with a mate who owns a current model Prado. The hill in question was basically a sand dune (10m tall) with grass and reeds growing out of it at about a 30-35 degree angle. The sand was fairly loose and very dry but existing wheel tracks suggested that someone else had made it up to the top before me so I gave it a go. Now before you all go on, I've had heaps of off road experience in mud and dirt but very little on sand.....
I approached the "hill" from a standing start at the base and got about 4m up when all 4 wheels dug-in & I was on my belly. (sand program) I reversed and tried it again this time with some momentum but got about 6m and stuck again.. I was going to give it a 3rd go but counted my losses and put up with the criticism from the Prado owning "mate" who could not stop suggesting his car would crawl up the hill without a prob.
We plan to go back and give it another go with his car as well next week, but need some suggestions on what else I can do to make the grade...
Any suggestions?? 
Oh I forgot to mention that I could have let the air out slightly (but it was the only hill and no sight of service station for 50kms) note standard wranglers What's the point.... it all comes out in the wash anyway!
85 Range Rover
01 Disco Series II
05 D3 V6SE, Bonatti Grey, 19"alloys
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 7th Feb 2007 11:34 am |
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Desert Traveller
Member Since: 06 Aug 2006
Location: The Gabba - QLD
Posts: 420
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What were your tyre pressure? Sand is all about momentum and tyre pressures. No-one walks up sand.
Did you disable the DSC? A must. Do you have an auto?
Also as you start loosing momenum raise the D3 to offroad height as standard height is too low in soft sand.
Make sure your mate goes on a very hot day, he will struggle. 06 TDV6 SE with many LR and after-market extras. Used only on weekends and trips out west.
Audi TT Roadster (Daily and around town drive)
VW Eos TDI For Sale
Previously 01 TD5 and 94 TDI
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| 7th Feb 2007 11:44 am |
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mobyone
Member Since: 23 Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 394
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Desert Traveller wrote:What were your tyre pressure? Sand is all about momentum and tyre pressures. No-one walks up sand.
Did you disable the DSC? A must. Do you have an auto?
Also as you start loosing momenum raise the D3 to offroad height as standard height is too low in soft sand.
Make sure your mate goes on a very hot day, he will struggle.
Standard tyre pressure (I know???)
Auto
Had it in extended mode on the "sand" program.
I did think about taking the DSC off but let it go...
I just don't want the b  d (Prado) to get up as he suggested (crawl) otherwise I'll live with it... What's the point.... it all comes out in the wash anyway!
85 Range Rover
01 Disco Series II
05 D3 V6SE, Bonatti Grey, 19"alloys
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| 7th Feb 2007 11:49 am |
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JMC
Member Since: 25 Feb 2006
Location: Aberdeen-Angus. Where the Bull* comes from!
Posts: 6417
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Buy a decent air compressor (eg. Viair 400p)
Reduce pressures to ~20psi, go back as far as you can and give it some in sand mode with the DSC off. 
BTW, This is what I would do as the Viair is always in the car, but I've never driven on sand so I'll wait for the D3 guru's to correct me...... 
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| 7th Feb 2007 2:28 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
 
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Wow JMC, It's got a 30amp draw, do you connect direct to the battery? Or have you made some custom connection point? I can't imagine the cigarette lighter coping with that? Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 7th Feb 2007 2:44 pm |
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JMC
Member Since: 25 Feb 2006
Location: Aberdeen-Angus. Where the Bull* comes from!
Posts: 6417
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Crocodile clips directly to the battery and make sure the compressor isn't turned on as you attach them or you get some big sparks!!! 
BTW, it blows-up a BFG from flat in under 2 mins and makes the modern forecourt air lines look silly!!!
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| 7th Feb 2007 2:48 pm |
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d3syd
Member Since: 04 May 2006
Location: Scamander, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 168
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mobyone, I am pretty certain that leaving the DSC on was the cause of your embarassing episode. Too bad a Prado driver had to be with you when it happened '06 TDV6 SE AUTO BUCKINGHAM BLUE
'98 Volvo V70
'87 Mecedes 420 SEL
'08 BMW 135i Coupe Twin Turbo
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| 7th Feb 2007 4:54 pm |
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disco4x4au
Member Since: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 409
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mobyone,
I've done a fair few sand dunes in the D3, usually with other vehicles around. Due to the weight of the D3 and the small tyres fitted as std, you're always going to struggle in this environment. If you can keep forward momentum, the torque of the motor will often see you through, but you'll never 'walk' up sand hills like lighter cars. The car really does benefit from larger tyres in this environment (like the Prado's for instance).
As people have said, switch off the DSC - it'll kill any forward progress once the car starts digging. On soft sand, you'll need to drop your tyre pressures to less than 16psi. At that pressure, and with that weight, only go in a straight line! I've gone as low as 12psi, but that's on non-std tyres with heavy beads.
The following is the technique I used in comps for long sand climbs, but to various extents may apply to shorter ones. Start off in 2nd low, give it two quick upshifts in succession, whilst accelerating as hard as the run-up permits, but without flooring the pedal ie use a progressive throttle. The car will change up through 3rd to 4th on it's own. As it slows, change down gears at just below 2000 rpm, again being careful not to completely floor the pedal. Hopefully, you'll make it to the top 
Cheers,
Gordon ex - 2006 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, with lots of stuff - R.I.P.
ex - 2009 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, had lots of stuff too!
Now - 2010 RRS 3.0 TDV6, rimini red, 18" rims + Cooper LTZ, rear eLocker, Spider tuning box, GOE protection plates and rock sliders, GOE 3way shortened rods.
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| 7th Feb 2007 11:59 pm |
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Desert Traveller
Member Since: 06 Aug 2006
Location: The Gabba - QLD
Posts: 420
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Have to agree with Gordon accept on DCS.
Tyres and the sheer weight of the D3 are hard to overcome. If you could fit 17" you could match the Pardo. In a straight line DCS has no effect but if lateral movement becomes apparent you will quickly stop.
The throttle, as hard to the floor as possible but avoid "pig rooting" (too much power and it will dig you in).
As a good responsible member of society (and 4WDriver) you never drive up a vegetated sand dune unless there is an established track.
Living by the sea and having done more than my fair share of sand driving, sand dunes do not recover easily when cut up by 4WD's, quads or bikes. Every morning I see the results of such environmental vandalism on a nearby beach. The dunes take years to heal from a bad case. 06 TDV6 SE with many LR and after-market extras. Used only on weekends and trips out west.
Audi TT Roadster (Daily and around town drive)
VW Eos TDI For Sale
Previously 01 TD5 and 94 TDI
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| 10th Feb 2007 9:04 am |
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Limpopo
Member Since: 04 Feb 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 30
 
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Same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago. Doing the Shipwreck Trail on the coast on the Northern Cape, which winds through and over established tracks in coastal dunes on De Beers property.
The mine's guide warned us to lower tyre pressures to one bar but, being mindful of breaking beads, I took mine down to 1.5 only. I drive a V8 SE on 18 inch 255 Wranglers. We were a family of four with full, 80 litres freezer. I got bogged on the first climb. (The guide had got his coffee and sandwiches out, watching from the top). There were a dozen or so vehicles and only two or three failed, the D3 being one. LR had told me not to go below 1.5 bar, but I was forced to go to 1 bar, or stay there. At these pressures, I managed the climb - just. Bottom line is that the D3 was the heaviest vehicle there and seemed to struggle. A different tyre (some kind of AT tyre with larger profile) would offer better floatation and make a difference. So far as momentum is concerned, I must admit though I'm not a novice, even at 1 bar I found it difficult to control all that power. Conclusion - D3 is heavy. It needs a much bigger footprint to feel comfortable on sand climbs (other than high-speed dunes) and that can be achieved only with slightly wider tyre and / or one with a more substantial profile that will allow a greater spread when deflated. Must look at it from the bright side...
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| 10th Feb 2007 6:09 pm |
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disco4x4au
Member Since: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 409
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Desert Traveller wrote:Have to agree with Gordon accept on DCS....
In a straight line DCS has no effect but if lateral movement becomes apparent you will quickly stop.
In an ideal world, I'd agree that the DSC would make no difference, However, that would require that:
1, The dune is perfectly smooth and the track is 90deg to the summit (ruts or off-angles will push the car left or right and trigger the DSC), and
2. There are no side slopes to the track up the dune/hill (that you might not have seen), that will also trigger the DCS.
Given the above, and the fact that I can see no advantage to having the DSC on in sand, I'd err on the side of caution and turn it off. The power it will rob from your forward travel is not worth it.
Cheers,
Gordon ex - 2006 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, with lots of stuff - R.I.P.
ex - 2009 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, had lots of stuff too!
Now - 2010 RRS 3.0 TDV6, rimini red, 18" rims + Cooper LTZ, rear eLocker, Spider tuning box, GOE protection plates and rock sliders, GOE 3way shortened rods.
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| 12th Feb 2007 2:08 pm |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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It certainly won't hurt switching it off, I personally do when ever I go off road as a simple precaution, but remember when ever you change TR programs it comes back on. As I understand it even then it is not off it just takes more effort to get it to work. DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
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| 12th Feb 2007 2:34 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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Wait until the shows start up Derek, Matt Savage were selling the 400P for about £160 at Billing last year The End
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| 18th Feb 2007 9:05 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Mobyone, did you go back & beat it or did the Pootrol beat it....? Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 18th Feb 2007 9:09 pm |
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