Member Since: 19 Oct 2013
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 145
I think that raising the temperature is just masking the issue as once the cabin sensor thinks it's hot enough it moves to cool everything down. I have mine set at 26 degrees and that seems to equate to half an hour of heating (depending on outside temperature) before the car try's to cool me down. If I set the temperature lower the heating time reduces so perhaps there are two parts to this. The first is the sensor triggering which may be a positional (change of construction?), software or electronic. The second is the logic of the HVAC system which seems just wrong as it only appears to use the floor vents when set on auto. No air whatsoever comes from the face level vents in mine on auto whereas in my other cars these are used by auto to warm/cool the car depending on ambient temperatures.
Does anyone think LR are actually working on this as the dealers don't seem to know?
1st Feb 2017 9:33 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
I would say they are hoping it will go away. Customer services have not been too helpful, just keep saying take it to dealer but they believe it works to design intent.
Dealer can't fix it unless they are given the tools to do so. Replacing bits with the same bits won't help if it is software or physical issue.
Last edited by countrywide on 3rd Feb 2017 7:06 am. Edited 1 time in total
1st Feb 2017 1:35 pm
Hairy Dan
Member Since: 19 Jan 2011
Location: Co. Durham
Posts: 12319
countrywide wrote:
just keep saying take it to dealer but they believe it works to design intent.
This is the camera saga all over again Cheers Ian
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Discoless
1st Feb 2017 2:33 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
There was a change to CAN bus infrastructure after 2014, so there are differences and you can't run 2014 HVAC software on a 15/16 car.
So it is back to Land Rover for input.
Heating is not the most complex thing in a car and it has previously been working in the D4, so I really struggle to see why they can't fix it or at least tell us they are working on it.
Last edited by countrywide on 3rd Feb 2017 7:03 am. Edited 1 time in total
Do you know what was changed in the CAN bus infrastructure? We have a 2014 Discovery (the facelift one) and from what you are saying they then changed the CAN bus for model year 15 and 16? This would perhaps tie in with the addition of the DEF system perhaps? And this change just happens to coincide with a reasonable number of people having complaints about the way the HVAC system works.
In terms of the problem that a number of us are facing, it is a system that is not performing to the design intent that a customer can rightly expect, no matter how the system itself is working. If a system is to control to a set point on an automatic system, then the customer should expect that control to work to that set point. Which for the majority of us is a temperature of around 21, 22 etc as the comfortable, appropriate temperature with it to be maintained around a small hysteresis level. Not to have warm/hot feet and blue hands and face! Or that you have to wear a winter coat, hats and gloves to drive in - for a longish drive (>15 minutes say) I would expect to be able to take the coat, gloves and hat off, even in winter.
Our dealer did say the car was heating up if it was turned up to 26 deg on the auto setting. I will be booking a further visit once I have had the opportunity to go for the 1/2 hour plus drive to check the situation out since it was only in on Monday. What I may have to do is drive with 21 setting, see what it is like and then ramp to 26(ish) and see the difference between both over the period. My preconceived thought is that it will still end up blowing cold air out at you at windscreen/face level, but probably with toasting hot feet when turned to 26(ish)! The next dealer visit will be taking them out to show what we do, how it manifests and if I have to drive about for a good while to demonstrate over the 2 setpoints the dealer tried on Monday, then so be it.
I will persevere.......
2nd Feb 2017 6:56 pm
Dannyson
Member Since: 15 Oct 2014
Location: Newquay, Cornwall
Posts: 820
Keep at it please..... It would be good to get LR to investigate the matter properly and issue a proper TSB... for me at the moment I can live with as is as I'm not sure if it has the problem or not 'though I suspect it does..... I can trundle along for 45 minutes or so at 21c quite 'toasty' and then it seems to cool down and I have to whack it up to 24 or more.... and 20 mins later turn it back down again.
But it was a bit similar (though not quite as so) in my Land Cruiser.
I never use the auto setting..... it just blasts everything at me....
Maybe I'm not using it right or it is 'defective'?
I can live with it ... at least until its 2 year service in July when maybe LR may have sorted it (though I'm not holding my breath....)2016MY Discovery HSE - Black
2009MY Toyota Land Cruiser (Lc4) - Black
3rd Feb 2017 12:18 am
mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2477
Following this with renewed interest as on a 1.5 hour trip today ,i had to have it at 26 and put the vents on manual overide to get a good cabin temperature.
i though this was cured the other week but ive recently had to have a complete vehicle software reinstall due to an unrelated issue and think i might be back to square 1 now on the heating MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
8th Feb 2017 6:52 pm
Dudleydisco
Member Since: 20 Jun 2014
Location: York
Posts: 853
Just out of interest Mark, what was the unrelated issue that called for the software reinstall?D4 MY14 XXV - RLD/IID BT
D4 MY13 HSE Lux - RLD/IID BT
P38 RR - Sad parting
110 - Even sadder parting
S3 88" - Still going strong after 23 years of ownership
Would be interested to know what you thought had solved it in terms of software previously, especially since the complete reinstall has now caused it to be back to the same issue?
I have (well, wife did last week) completed almost an hour long drive at 21 degrees set, then a return trip later that day same duration at 26 degrees set.
Guess what, at 21 wife had to have her gloves on due to freezing cold hands and at 26 she still had her ski jacket and scarf on! Plus, tops of her legs were rather cold at both settings, so cold air is still being moved on the top half of the air outputs, whether windscreen or face vents. If the dealer doesn't accept that as a climate control system that's not working, I'll ask their team members would they go on and sit on the beach/poolside/up a mountain at a temp of 26 with that lot on? (Insert 'Dealer sarky responses to that here': ....... !)
I have it booked for Friday for the drive with the service tech to demonstrate our issue, I am inclined to get the wife to go in one Disco, and me in the other and get them to see the difference between the 2 models - as they have suggested they will check it against another new model to see if they work the same way. Which I would fully expect them to, just that both would be working correctly but wrongly.
If you could furnish and ideas on what the success was, Mark, I would take that to them as well as the other points already picked up on the forum.
Something must put this right in terms of adjustment/calibration one would like to think.
8th Feb 2017 7:10 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Sorry for delay, not sure of the exact change on CAN bus. Customer services refuse to accept there is an issue and tried to tell me it was like your central heating thermostat.
I am logging several vehicles to compare HVAC response, but as we all have the same issue there is clearly a problem with later models.
I can't remember when stop start was introduced as this could affect it and perhaps the FBH, which will operate while driving if coolant temp drops to heat cabin. It is only there for cabin heating (and preheat in some countries) and not an engine heater as you might assume.
If anybody is happy to give me their VIN numbers by PM I can liaise with Customer Services, I am having it escalated to regional technical manager to see if we can move forward. Only when they agree there is a problem will they work on a solution. I suspect it will be a software issue which can be quickly resolved once resources are allocated to it.
Last edited by countrywide on 8th Feb 2017 10:35 pm. Edited 1 time in total
8th Feb 2017 8:51 pm
Dudleydisco
Member Since: 20 Jun 2014
Location: York
Posts: 853
Stop/Start came in MY14 D4 MY14 XXV - RLD/IID BT
D4 MY13 HSE Lux - RLD/IID BT
P38 RR - Sad parting
110 - Even sadder parting
S3 88" - Still going strong after 23 years of ownership
8th Feb 2017 9:48 pm
AF500
Member Since: 26 Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2
Watching this with interest. I'm having exactly the same problems with a model year 14 D4.
9th Feb 2017 9:14 am
mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2477
ok my story is thus
i fitted my remote fbh controller from my olf MY10 to the new car and needed it enabled
after it was fitted you need to reboot the system to get the new settings to take
following the reboot i had lost the AV system (icon greyed out on screen and sat nav ) and also had no audio on any system in the car ...panic
took to the dealer who had a look at it and diagnosed the AV "communication module "as having died
at the same visit is i asked them to look at the heating and pointed them towards the technical bulletin mentioned earlier in this thread.
they replaced the unit but had an issue downloading the software from LR due to there site signal instability so i had to book it back in .
I was off on holiday so my test run was 70 miles to Gatwick and it was -4 on the run ,,tbh the temperature control seemed good but it may have been due to the extreme external temperature and i dont know for sure they 100% applied the fix but it seemed to be ok on that run.
Came back from hols and car went back in for second stab , this time all went ok but told by technician that following the new module install a full software reinstall happened
everything AV wise now working inc the remote fbh control but did notice that on a 50 mile trip yesterday that it was getting colder after 20 + minutes and i had to switch the vent to manual front vent as turning temp up just ended up with hot feet .MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
So before the AV communication module was replaced, it all worked fine - no issues.
Change of AV module, failed software update, still working as before (as you assumed).
Then complete software update (I take it this is now applying all new software to the latest version your car can take rather than ensuring the same versions installed as you had before).
...... and volia, you now have the issue that the rest of us have on the HVAC giving us cold air in the upper area of the car and hot feet when operating in auto mode.
This is useful; as someone who had a working system now has a non-working system with software update being applied. There is some hope that it could be a soft fix rather than a hardware fix, but we shall see.
To countrywide:
We have the current fortunate position of having 2 vehicles - one a 2014 XS model (goes back from lease in 4 weeks time), the other a 2016 Landmark (secured as one of the last D4's at the dealers). The 2014 model has stop-start and DOES not exhibit the same issue as the 2016 model. I would say therefore the stop-start is not the cause of the issue.
I don't have the VIN number to hand for the 2014 model, but I can get it later on today and will forward a PM to you with both.
As I'll be at the dealer tomorrow, I am going armed with the info from the forum:
Kinked hose from the dash intake
Internal sensors not recording vehicle temp correctly (internal dash vs dashboard top sensor and the windscreen humidity sensor)
Replacement of sensors, with the FBH also being replaced
Software update to previous working system now causing the issue
The service team at Morrisons in Stirling do take the issues raised with them seriously, hence my perseverance on this. Even the sales person is wanting to know how we get on as it is not good for them to have vehicles that have issues as the reputation of the business goes hand in hand with customer satisfaction - the main reason why we deal with them and not any of the other dealers within the vicinity of us.
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Keep at it please..... It would be good to get LR to investigate the matter properly and issue a proper TSB... for me at the moment I can live with as is as I'm not sure if it has the problem or not 'though I suspect it does..... I can trundle along for 45 minutes or so at 21c quite 'toasty' and then it seems to cool down and I have to whack it up to 24 or more.... and 20 mins later turn it back down again.
