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shravanjk86
Member Since: 20 Jun 2019
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 51
  
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How does everyone performing a DIY sump change and fluid refill on their driveway check that their car is level please ?
I've done this over the last weekend and I had a couple of sprit levels which assisted me in this.
One spirit level of over a meter in length and the other 600mm in length.
I'd put the car on axle stands and all stands on the same setting.
Both spirit levels were indicating that the car was higher on the RHS than the LHS.
Which made sense because the drive/ street in front of the house is slightly tilted/cambered.
To correct this, I increased the Axle stands on LHS by one notch.
That solved it, spirit level read dead on center when it came to LHS vs. RHS levels.
The fore-aft setting was still just a bit off, in that the car's back was higher than the front.
But since the spirit level read 1mm/1Meter, & it was reading just 1mm off, I was happy enough with it.
Once all this was done, I proceeded with the regular ZF Procedure with engine on.
Shifted though gears 1,2,& 3 in sport mode too, so that the TC sucks up some oil.
I had a steady stream of oil coming out of the fill hole at 40C , when I put the bung back in & torqued it to 35Nm.
Now my issue is this, the car had, and continues to have judders when it is in the transition phase between cold and fully warmed up.
Edit on 24.01 : Come to think of it when I got the car in Feb 2020 , it did not have any judders until April 2021 or had only the slightest judders whilst fully loaded (4 PPL) and going uphill.
What happened in April 2021 : I wanted to do a FILO style flush, so opened up the Oil cooler pipe to the radiator to check the size of pipe i'd need and meanwhile forgot to tighten back the jubilee clip. That ensued in a disaster a month later when the hose broke loose and spewed ATF all over the road and showed me the big F on the transmission. Luckily this happened less than 2Km from my house, so went over got the AG55 I was intending to use anyway and filled it in. All happy then , car working again.
To me it looked like even the uphill shudders were gone, though I didn't really get to test it 4 up since then. But there was this issue of the car shuddering when trying to lock up at motorway speeds when cold. Once warmed up , no issues at all.
In order to fix this , I figured changing the filter and sump and mechatronic seals might help, and I did carry this out, all went well. Unfortunately the shudder is still very much there from cold on the motorway, and as before disappears once warmed up. This is not only on the first start of the day , but also during times when, say I go to a destination, finish the visit and then start the car a few ahours after it's sat and get it running again on the motorway from cold.
End of Edit
There is no rpm fluctuation to speak of that would signify a TC issue.
In fact the gearbox shifts really smooth and works perfectly fine when warm.
Shudder is most pronounced when I start driving the car fast soon, as I live lesser than a couple of miles from the motorway. It shudders real bad when at 50mph and above speeds, it's like it can't decide whether to lock up or not. But once the temperature needle is stable and warmed up , issue goes away.
Workaround has been driving the car through some 20 & 30mph zones to get her warmed up for 15 mins before getting on the motorway, but that can't be a real long term solution.
I am inclined to think I have either overfilled or under filled by some amount.
Does the 40C instruction apply to a steady trickle or a drip drop situation ?
Finally a word about the driveway where I carried this out, yes it's not 100% level, but it'll do for the most part I guessed. In case anyone is wondering, I used the 600mm Spirit level across the cup holders near the dash, in a way that the length of 600mm was LHS to RHS, so it was sat horizontally, and same for the 1000mm Spirit level which was positioned on the 3rd row seats, the most forward part of the boot where it meets the 2nd row. I used Mannol AG55 and the metal conversion kit from AF.
Last edited by shravanjk86 on 24th Jan 2022 6:12 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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 17th Jan 2022 11:26 pm |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
 
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Well if the issue was there before the oil change, it’s not a level issue.
Any gearbox fault codes ?
Maybe transfer box ?
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| 18th Jan 2022 12:05 am |
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shravanjk86
Member Since: 20 Jun 2019
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 51
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No gearbox fault codes, thank god for that 
It did have the P081, where it was confusing the park signal between the lever and autobox.
But that never affected anything, it was only on the message display center occasionally.
Even that is gone now, given as how I changed the bridge seals in the mechatronic and cleaned that up.
Yes, thank you for the Transfer case hint, that's been on my to do list since some time now.
I almost did it during this service, but held back since I didn't have the copper washers.
Purchased this car 2 years back and have been going through the jobs one by one as time permits.
Previous owner seems to have done a gearbox sump change + flush in early 2017, so 100tkms ago.
I changed the oil in April 2021 before I did the full sump change last week, both on driveway.
I'm not entirely sure it was doing this shudder before April 2021, if it was, maybe not this pronounced.
Either way, I can't believe the variation will be any more than a quart at worst.
So onto the transfer box for now. 
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| 18th Jan 2022 12:35 am |
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shravanjk86
Member Since: 20 Jun 2019
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 51
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Pete K wrote:Well if the issue was there before the oil change, it’s not a level issue.
Any gearbox fault codes ?
Maybe transfer box ?
Hi Pete, thanks for the input, I did the transfer box as you suggested, didn't help.
I've edited with some additional Info as above.
I am now thinking i'll lift her into Off road mode as the car self levels and check fluid at 35deg C.
Of course i'll have jackstands just in case it decides to lower itself , so i'm safe.
Do we think the car self levelling should be more reliable than axle stands as above.
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| 24th Jan 2022 6:17 pm |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
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I don’t think the level is as critical as people make out.
I’ve always just done it in off road mode.
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| 24th Jan 2022 6:29 pm |
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shravanjk86
Member Since: 20 Jun 2019
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 51
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Perfect , thanks for that.
I did a calculation just now, and EVEN IF the entire sump through it's full length is 1mm deeper it holds 150ml more !
Which like you say is a laughably low amount to be worrying about.
So I think I will do the filling on offroad mode the coming weekend and see if that helps. 
Failing which i'll have to start looking elsewhere.
The front end accessories tensioner needs replacing for sure, though I can't imagine that having anything to do with this.
Just want to work through issues one by one so things can be traced.
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| 24th Jan 2022 6:43 pm |
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munst
Member Since: 16 Sep 2020
Location: GLOS
Posts: 155
 
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Just a note, the self levelling dosent 'level' to the ground (without 3rd party controllers) it Just adjusts its self so all the height sensors read the same. If it's parked on the wonk, it'll still be wonky.
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| 24th Jan 2022 7:36 pm |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
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These cars are meant to drive up and down hills etc  without issues to the gearbox.
Just trying to get the fill level about right.
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| 24th Jan 2022 8:18 pm |
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munst
Member Since: 16 Sep 2020
Location: GLOS
Posts: 155
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Nein es muss eben sein! 
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| 24th Jan 2022 9:00 pm |
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shravanjk86
Member Since: 20 Jun 2019
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 51
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Thanks for that , yes it will be parked on the wonk. But it’s about as flat as any road I suppose.
I didn’t expect the “Levelling” being just all 4 height sensors being equal.
That’s not what I’d expect from a car that controls it’s axle articulation with sensors.
ja, muss Eben sein, ZF Getriebe halt
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| 24th Jan 2022 11:42 pm |
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Chris1573
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Stroud
Posts: 196
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From everything I have read a judder or shudder in the transmission could be the sign your torque converter or gearbox is worn. Dr Tranny additive seems to be one solution but probably only a short term fix...?
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| 25th Jan 2022 11:15 am |
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shravanjk86
Member Since: 20 Jun 2019
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 51
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That would be the case if the TC judders consistently everytime.
In most cases i've read they seem to have fluctuating RPMs at constant speed, which is not the case for me. And neither are codes stored (Using iCarsoft v2). Will read for codes again and check , though I expect it will remain as before.
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| 25th Jan 2022 11:41 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
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I think there are 2 failure modes or observations for TC problem.
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| 25th Jan 2022 1:36 pm |
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