Member Since: 27 May 2011
Location: Sticking the Ex back in the skanks bin
Posts: 2824
PSA dont stock the parts either. Maybe someone should complain to the complaints commission or something as its a syndicate kind of action going on to control pricing i think.
As above if your doing 5 engines a month and can afford the outlay of say 50 cranks, sets of rods and pistons then they would do a cracking deal for you for that amount of pistons and rods. Then maybe get the bearings tabbed as part of the design and a sticker under the bonnet to warn future owners to get the engine parts from you/them in the future to prevent any problems as well, like aircon places do with dyes usually FFRR Owner, very nearly became a D3 owner
Test piloted a new D4 XS SDV6.. Gone and being forgotten i hope!!
D4 HSE 10MY
D4 XS 11MY
SSRR Destroyer *2
Vertex is 100m away front of my home
could ask, sure they won't do small quantities
how many pistons will you need?
F.
24th Aug 2012 9:08 pm
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
Is there an oil feed hole in the bigend bearings ? Arn't the big ends and bearings connected around the crank and the oil feed from the crank is delivered under the bearing without having to go through a hole ?.
andi
24th Aug 2012 9:25 pm
CUCO
Member Since: 27 May 2011
Location: Spain & Oleee!!!
Posts: 609
No, they are individually oiled, look this photo of an 2.7 example with the crankshaft badly cracked:
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
filo wrote:
Vertex is 100m away front of my home
could ask, sure they won't do small quantities
how many pistons will you need?
F.
Hi filo
I will come back to you once we have progressed with this one. Thanks for the offer. It is most appreciated.
And thank you to all the forumites out there who are assisting us. We are BIG LR fans down here in South Africa and all we want is for our babies to perform as per specifications. EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
25th Aug 2012 6:16 am
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Hi Cuco
I am waiting for some detailed photos of what is happening with these motors from the engineering shop we use.
The problem is with a failed one with snapped conrod it is difficult to fathom out where the original weak point developed.
But after stripping down one with a bad bearing knock which we caught just in time and another one with a melted piston (petrol in diesel caused that), there was also already substantial degradation of bearings noticable.
So we seem to know now what we have to concentrate on.
We have found a solution for those motors that do not yet have compromised bearings and it works like a charm.
Through an oil analysis we can very easliy determine, what is happening inside an engine without opening it.
Once bearing material related abrasive contamination is present in the oil, it will be just a question of time, before such an engine quits.
But one thing is for certain, as I have already mentioned higher up. It is now just a question of time before some clever attorney gets hold of this one and starts a class action suit type drive for compensation for all the owners of vehicles powered by these engines. I have an english translation of the link posted by Cuco.
That article hits the nail on the head. The evidence is most clearly there.
And as I had mentioned before, it results in either run bearings, snapped conrod(s) and/or snapped crankshaft.EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
25th Aug 2012 6:27 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20727
hgbosch wrote:
So we seem to know now what we have to concentrate on.
We have found a solution for those motors that do not yet have compromised bearings and it works like a charm.
Do you care to share this information? You have mentioned it a few times now My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Hi Disco-Mikey
yes that information can be shared, it is no secret. We use a south african product, that was developed for the mining and defence industry to protect the running surfaces of the motor during the initial warmup phase.
I don't want to commercially punt products on this forum, as I am the distributor for Southern Africa and Europe.
The product is called Poly-TFE and is available in SA. For european applications, it can be shipped in concentrate form, which then has to be mixed with the correct specification oil.
It coats the running surfaces of the motor with a very fine film of Teflon. Particle size is 0.02 - 0.05 micron in spherical form and electrically neutral, so they don't clog. This coating protects the motor during the initial startup phase, until oil pressure has built up sufficiently to properly lubricate all the critical parts in the engine. The concentrate passes through a lab filter, so no chance here to clog up oil bores or oil filters.
This product may only be applied to a diesel engine, after it has run for at least 10'000km (5000km for petrol engines), so that rings have had a chance to bed in properly. Non-adherence to this can result in VERY high oil consumption.
Just for information, the piston skirts of the PSA engine are sprayed with a teflon coating, which is then baked in an ofen at about 150 Deg for about 1 hour.
On all the engines that I overhaul I have the piston crowns ceramically coated with the Powerkote process and the piston skirts coated with that very same teflon coating, also a Powerkote product.
I trust this helps.
Click image to enlarge
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
25th Aug 2012 7:10 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20727
So, we are now back to the whole oil additive debate again...
After a quick Google for PTFE:
Quote:
PTFE is a solid which is added to engine oil and coats the moving parts of the engine.
However, such solids seem even more inclined to coat non-moving parts, like oil passages and filters. After all, if it can build up under the pressures and friction exerted on a cylinder wall, then it stands to reason it should build up even better in places with low pressures and virtually no friction.
This conclusion seems to be borne out by tests on oil additives containing PTFE conducted by the NASA Lewis Research Center, which said in their report, "In the types of bearing surface contact we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping, it is actually depriving parts of lubricant" (Rau).
In defense of Slick 50, tests done on a Chevy 6 cylinder engine by the University of Utah Engineering Experiment Station found that after treatment with the PTFE additive the test engine's friction was reduced by 13.1 percent, the output horsepower increased from 5.3 percent to 8.1 percent, and fuel economy improved as well. Unfortunately, the same tests concluded that "There was a pressure drop across the oil filter resulting from possible clogging of small passageways." Oil analysis showed that iron contamination doubled after the treatment, indicating that engine wear increased (Rau).
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Hi Disco_Mikey
I am one of the most sceptical persons around, when it comes to additives. After over 20 years using Poly-TFE I know that it works, that is why I have taken on the distributorship.
There are quite a few areas in engineering where here in SA we are FAR ahead of Europe and the USA. This came about of a necessity due to sanctions during the Apartheid era in SA.
As far as the usual gunk being offered with a huge advertising effort, yes I agree with you and the statement you quoted.
But this is not the place to defend a specific product. Those TDV6 engines we treated with this stuff are showing a lack of increased wear signs, as is shown up in frequent oil analysis done every 30000km.
That is probable the reason why some of the most reputable indie shops in JHB are using it for the benefit of their customers.
Lets just leave it at that.
This thread is about how to come up with the necessary resources to be able to rebuild those PSA motors and that is what we should concentrate on.EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
25th Aug 2012 9:33 am
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
Hi cuco.
Sorry, I can't see what you mean from the picture. I cannot see an oil supply hole in the big end, only in the block where the main journal would be as is normal.
Blimy, slick 50, a right royal blast from the past, do they still make it ?
Disco_Mikey On the engines you have changed, have you found big end shell bearings rotating or do you know if they are made without "tabs"
Many thanks.
Andi.
25th Aug 2012 9:18 pm
DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
On the engines you have changed, have you found big end shell bearings rotating or do you know if they are made without "tabs"
