Member Since: 23 Jun 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 570
Cadence breaking is extremely relevant on very very steep descent as you use it control the speed of the descent which in turn will stop you hitting the top of the engine rev band. once you hit this the wheels will / can lock up and you lose control. if you are at the top of the engine rev band you can no longer accelerate out of trouble and regain traction. have had use this principle numerous times trialing and driving around the farm in various bits of kits.
10th Nov 2010 6:58 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
Have you ever been anywhere near the rev limits in a D3 going down hill in 1st low with HDC on?
10th Nov 2010 7:08 pm
CFB
Member Since: 02 Dec 2005
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posts: 6100
Doubtful but if no HDC fitted then I agree it's a proven technique (after all it's what HDC is doing albeit in a more sophisticated manner)2020 BMW X1 18d XDrive X-Line Auto
10th Nov 2010 7:12 pm
Hanechdene
Member Since: 23 Jun 2009
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 570
No, not when HDC is on but this thread was not about HDC or D3.
Give it ago sometime, you might need it when the HDC packs up somewhere inconvenient.............
Doubtful but if no HDC fitted then I agree it's a proven technique (after all it's what HDC is doing albeit in a more sophisticated manner)
...surely a high rev limit situation would only occur in a manual anyway
HDC situations - Just think about where your engine revs are if you have a D3 (or D4 or D2) Autobox....its the brakes that are being applied on & off by HDC - with the wheel speed sensors feeding back data to a CPU in the braking system
...the engine is just ticking over - I believe you can use HDC with the vehicle in neutral i.e drive disconnected ?
...back to cadence braking.....high revs ....manual box...in a 4WD descent situation...low ratio box ...low gear selected - you are suggesting rapid depressions of the brake pedal almost till the wheels lock then re-apply brake.......I wasn't aware that this was a technique used on a manual box - non HDC vehicle in a steep descent situation
...you learn something every day....wont be a situation I'm ever in as I would only have an auto box...that probably starts another threadBREXIT - done properly.
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10th Nov 2010 7:40 pm
robsmith
Member Since: 02 Sep 2007
Location: Staffordshire
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Two words
DON'T TRY
The box will fry its guts, you will be left with no drive, no control and, if you are lucky a big repair bill, otherwise......
Autoboxes just aren't designed to cope with the reverse torques of using reverse on steep downhills, something will brake unless its a very short slope.
The only way out is, as others have said, cadence braking - which if you think about it is more or less what HDC does, but much faster than the human foot can achieve.Rob Smith
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10th Nov 2010 7:43 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
I sometimes have to use cadence braking when driving my Series 2a. Its a petrol engine, and even 1st low can be too high to provide adequate braking down a steep slippery slope.
Derek, do you remember following me in Betsy down that incrediblly slippery slope at a very wet and muddy Boughrood a few years ago? That was cadence braking! (and a good grip on the seat with both buttocks)
10th Nov 2010 7:59 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
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Posts: 50934
Depends on how steep and slippery your slope is .....not that I would ever have considered putting it in reverse ...but in my 'out of control' moment gravity was king and nothing (apart from a tree ) was going to stop the motor hurtling down the hill once I had lost traction. I can't see how reverse would have assisted the situation.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
10th Nov 2010 8:00 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
The one where I went down on 4 locked wheels and couldn't understand why pressing the peddle any harder didn't slow me down??
DG that hill's still known as Dick's Slip!! I sooooooooooo mis Boughrood!!
The advantage of HDC over cadence braking is that HDC brakes the individual wheels - cadence braking used properly brakes all 4 wheels and one of more lock up, when the brake peddle is released and reapplied - all 4 wheels stop/reduce braking.
I don't believe there would be many, if any, situations that HDC would do a worse job over cadence braking.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
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10th Nov 2010 8:04 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
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DSL wrote:
DG that hill's still known as Dick's Slip!! I sooooooooooo mis Boughrood!!
Slippy Dick's ... Del 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
10th Nov 2010 8:05 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
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Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
Not how I remember it but if the shoe fits!!
10th Nov 2010 8:06 pm
dick dastardly
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: wiggleigh bottom
Posts: 1112
would probably squirt gearbox oil everywhere. oil pressure goes beyond the design limits.There's one wheel on my wagon, but i'm still rollin' along, it's the cherokee, they're after me, but I'm singing a happy song
If it was a good way to come down hill then all the off road training schools would be including it in there off road lessons.?
Flack
11th Nov 2010 12:45 am
LiftedDisco
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: Towcester
Posts: 997
... I've got a LR demonstrator next week, who wants to try...
No... not even in their vehicle would I consider selecting reverse when heading downhill... I have an abject fear of gearbox components spilling out at some speed - oil, cogs and bits of shrapnel!
In a sick sense, I am actually wondering which 'other forum' is inhabited by such folks... and is it unkind for us all to migrate over to see who actually thinks it might be acceptable?
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.....not that I would ever have considered putting it in reverse 
) was going to stop the motor hurtling down the hill once I had lost traction. I can't see how reverse would have assisted the situation.
