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Cranking/Starting Problem - Free Beer*
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JayDubbleya
 


Member Since: 02 Oct 2016
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 15

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3
Cranking/Starting Problem - Free Beer*

Hi Chaps,

[Free beer offer available at foot of page Smile]

I’m currently struggling with what I think (hope) is a battery/alternator problem.
I am a bit of an electrical heathen, and so whilst being able to maintain and ‘tinker’ with my vehicles to a reasonable level - given time and facilities, I do struggle for confidence in my diagnosis in this area.

I’ve reviewed a lot of former threads and they have informed the ‘findings so far’ below.

Anyone out there with the relevant knowledge or similar experiences, who may be able to point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Background:
2007 TDV6 with 130k miles and good service history.
The history tells me that both the battery and alternator were replaced in Jan 2015 at approx 90k miles (40k ago)

First noticed the problem (as described below) when my AUX belt tensioner started chirruping a few weeks back and wondered (electrical heathen remember), whether the belt tension on the alternator was suffering and hence the alternator wasn’t providing charge to the best of its ability. Promptly had the tensioner and belt replaced, but the problem persists.


The Problem:
Intermittent poor cranking power on starting the engine.
- Sometimes fires immediately (as standard)
- Sometimes engine turns for a second or two then fires
- And, slightly more regularly now, is very tired on cranking and acts like its going to fail to start (tumble weed moment as await my trusty steed to roar into life!)
- Failed to start once, two weeks ago (as per example above but no firing). Jump leads fired her up immediately however.

The issue is present most of the time, although experienced 3 days last week when it seemed to have gone away.

I’m running where possible, with lights, radio and blowers off, incase the battery isn’t getting a decent re-charge, and will therefore be low when I next go to start the car.

Cold start/warm start/overnight start/immediate re-start seems to make little difference to when the problem occurs.


Findings so far:
Using a multi-meter at the battery, I have discovered this…

Battery (prior to starting engine): 12.5V

During starting: 9.8/9V (whilst firing) slow climb to 13.86 (after the engine’s caught)

Settled down and running: 13.86V

Running with ancillaries on (lights, blower, radio, etc): 13.83-9V fluctuating

Running with revs @ 1500: 13.84V

Driving around (using the ‘hidden menu’ at the screen): 13.5V


Battery seems to have a constant 12.5V in it at rest (engine off), i.e., it doesn’t seem to be losing charge.

SO what does all this tell me?
Don't want to buy a new battery if its the Alt, and visa versa.

OBVIOUSLY IT MAY BE SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY SEEM LIKE FUELLING?


Thanks in anticipation.


Free beer offer>>> Happy to buy a pint for anyone who can point me in the direction of a fix (when you are in my area that is Wink

 Discovery 3, HSE, 2.7 TDV6 Auto, Tonga Green  
Post #184254931st Jul 2017 12:19 pm
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mallo
 


Member Since: 10 Feb 2009
Location: Jersey
Posts: 301

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Hi
Have you checked all the electrical connections are tight and clean, I think there has been a few where the battery earth wasn't great......, just a thought.......
Have you charged the battery over night and see if this makes any difference, if you do loads of short runs its hard on the battery too.........
  
Post #184255431st Jul 2017 12:33 pm
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Hardware17
 


Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1685

England 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4

Ditto for battery earth check.

Also check resistance engine to battery negative.

Try using a jumplead between engine and battery negative and see if it cranks more easily.
 Dean.
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port custom protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer Sad ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms 
 
Post #184255831st Jul 2017 12:43 pm
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JayDubbleya
 


Member Since: 02 Oct 2016
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 15

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

mallo wrote:
Hi
Have you checked all the electrical connections are tight and clean, I think there has been a few where the battery earth wasn't great......, just a thought.......
Have you charged the battery over night and see if this makes any difference, if you do loads of short runs its hard on the battery too.........



Hi Mallo,

Thanks for the quick response. I will check the connections next chance I get (hopefully this eve).

I have a problem charging the battery because it's parked on a country lane, with no close access to power. However, is it too simplistic of me to presume that if the batt is showing 12.5V, engine off, that it seems 'full of charge'?

Cheers
Jay
 Discovery 3, HSE, 2.7 TDV6 Auto, Tonga Green  
Post #184260731st Jul 2017 2:05 pm
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JayDubbleya
 


Member Since: 02 Oct 2016
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 15

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

Hardware17 wrote:
Ditto for battery earth check.

Also check resistance engine to battery negative.

Try using a jumplead between engine and battery negative and see if it cranks more easily.



Hi Hardware 17,

So, if I get this correct?..... literally clamp one end of a jump lead to the engine block somewhere, and the other end to the negative pole to the battery and try turning her over and see if it makes a difference?


Thanks
Jay
 Discovery 3, HSE, 2.7 TDV6 Auto, Tonga Green  
Post #184260931st Jul 2017 2:08 pm
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mallo
 


Member Since: 10 Feb 2009
Location: Jersey
Posts: 301

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

JayDubbleya wrote:
mallo wrote:
Hi
Have you checked all the electrical connections are tight and clean, I think there has been a few where the battery earth wasn't great......, just a thought.......
Have you charged the battery over night and see if this makes any difference, if you do loads of short runs its hard on the battery too.........



Hi Mallo,

Thanks for the quick response. I will check the connections next chance I get (hopefully this eve).

I have a problem charging the battery because it's parked on a country lane, with no close access to power. However, is it too simplistic of me to presume that if the batt is showing 12.5V, engine off, that it seems 'full of charge'?

Cheers
Jay


Hi Jay
No I wouldn't necessarily say that at 12.5V the battery is fully charged. I have seen a battery that is sulfated show 12.5V and as soon as a load is put on it the voltage drop like a stone.
I would try and get another battery in it as just to remove the existing one to charge it up properly with a smart charger and see where you go from there, if its better that's your answer, and if it then fails after awhile again I would say its not been properly charged (not long enough running/alternator problems).
I hope this makes sense.
If you want to discuss send me a PM with a telephone number and I will call you back.
  
Post #184262531st Jul 2017 2:35 pm
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Hardware17
 


Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1685

England 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4

Yes ... We had a Vauxhall that I accidentally found I could jump start from itself. Earth lead from block to body measured ok for resistance with multimeter but shoving 100+ amps down it was a different matter.

Jump lead to a sturdy bit of the block, making sure it's not going to be shaken loose as engine rocks about whilst cranking.
 Dean.
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port custom protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer Sad ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms 
 
Post #184263531st Jul 2017 2:58 pm
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JayDubbleya
 


Member Since: 02 Oct 2016
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 15

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

The saga continues...

'electrical connections tight and clean' - CHECK

'battery earth good' - so far as I can tell CHECK

'jump lead from engine block to neg terminal' - CHECK (no difference)


So anyway, the symptoms continue the same! My gut keeps hinting at simply a tired battery (but I don't want to waste spend on a replacement without proving the problem).

This is what happened today...

> Parked up (after a short run) and thought I'd get the meter on the battery and run a couple of tests.

> Turned engine off and monitored battery drain down to about 12.4V.

> (Engine off) Turned on lights, blower, hazards, radio for 2 mins - battery reading fluctuating between 11.5 - 12.5V.

> Then tried starting - engine failed to fire after two long turns (sounding typical tired battery stylee).

>Thinks - "deft battery on the way out". Locked car and went in.

>Returned to car 3 hours later, expecting to have to cadge a jump start from neighbour (and drive some miles to get some charge into the system), and she fired up a beauty, first turn without a splutter.

>WTF?!?!?! I was expecting the battery to be drained, but it had recharged itself in the interim.


All of which leads me to wonder - Can it really be the battery?

PLEASE, someone who understand the electrical on the Disco 3 better than I, advise me - where do I go with this?

Not knowing diesels that well, could this perhaps be a glow-plug thing (shot in the dark!)

Thanks in anticipation.

Jay

[/list]
 Discovery 3, HSE, 2.7 TDV6 Auto, Tonga Green  
Post #184608010th Aug 2017 8:06 pm
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Narpy
Site Supporter 


Member Since: 18 Jul 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 6122

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

Borrow a replacement and known good battery and swap yours out, it sounds fecked if it's going down to 11.5v. Did you mention it went to 9v on cranking?

Sounds paggered to me. Rolling Eyes
 Mods:
Front Fogs + Halos
FBH Remote Control
The 1st Ever RRS Modded Grill
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Rear Boot Spoiler.
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Make your own Narpy grill thread 
 
Post #184608810th Aug 2017 8:16 pm
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JayDubbleya
 


Member Since: 02 Oct 2016
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 15

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

Hi Narpy,

Thanks for the feedback.

The battery was replaced and n Jan 2015, approx 38k miles ago.
Shouldn't really be shot yet surely?

Spec of current battery is:

12V / 100Ah / 850A

Is this up to the task?

J
 Discovery 3, HSE, 2.7 TDV6 Auto, Tonga Green  
Post #184609910th Aug 2017 8:38 pm
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Narpy
Site Supporter 


Member Since: 18 Jul 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 6122

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

It should be, when new. Some batteries just don't last on the other hand you could have just got unlucky and it's partly let go or collapsed internally.
Take it somewhere and have it load tested but it sounds very much like it'll fail especially if you know it'll go down as low as 9v.

As suggested, borrow a known good one and see how it is, if you were close to me you could borrow my spare. Thumbs Up
 Mods:
Front Fogs + Halos
FBH Remote Control
The 1st Ever RRS Modded Grill
Garmin Nuvi + D4 Surround + Reversing Camera.
D4 Steering Wheel.
Rear Boot Spoiler.
Twin Brake Lights.
Wing Mirror Indicator Repeaters.
Long Roof Rails
Make your own Narpy grill thread 
 
Post #184611610th Aug 2017 8:59 pm
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mallo
 


Member Since: 10 Feb 2009
Location: Jersey
Posts: 301

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Or try a fully charged jump pack, I carry one all the time and its been used a few times.
  
Post #184618111th Aug 2017 7:35 am
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M3DPO
 


Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 4177

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 3

Have you a cubby box fridge fitted?- is it switched off?
Do you have any other symptoms? -One of the first signs a of a tired battery is the satnav display not showing for a while after the engine has started, Clock in dash showing --.--, etc,etc.
When you did these tests did you allow the car to go to sleep? - if not you will have a large draw on the battery from auxhilary items like the heater plugs for instance, 12.5 is very low if there is no draw on the battery.
As regards you going back to the car and it starting, yes the battery can recover slightly if left to stand for a while.
 It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't. 
 
Post #184619611th Aug 2017 8:07 am
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JayDubbleya
 


Member Since: 02 Oct 2016
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 15

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

Well, the issues I have described aren't going away (well, ok, I mean its not like they were going to is it now). In fact they are getting slightly worse/more regular.

This being the case, I have today ordered:

EA1000 Exide Premium Car Battery 017TE from Tayna Batteries.

I'll update the thread, after a week or so or running, to confirm (or not) whether the new battery has resolved the issues that I've been encountering.


By the way, can anyone please advise whether there's any particular procedure that I should follow when swapping the batteries over?
Whilst I've replaced my share of batteries in the past, I'm also aware that the Disco 3 is a bit of an electrical diva!
That being the case, any tips will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks everyone for the input so far.

Jay
 Discovery 3, HSE, 2.7 TDV6 Auto, Tonga Green  
Post #18541714th Sep 2017 7:44 pm
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Narpy
Site Supporter 


Member Since: 18 Jul 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 6122

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

Open the bonnet, let the car go to sleep, swap the battery, close the bonnet. Thumbs Up
 Mods:
Front Fogs + Halos
FBH Remote Control
The 1st Ever RRS Modded Grill
Garmin Nuvi + D4 Surround + Reversing Camera.
D4 Steering Wheel.
Rear Boot Spoiler.
Twin Brake Lights.
Wing Mirror Indicator Repeaters.
Long Roof Rails
Make your own Narpy grill thread 
 
Post #18541794th Sep 2017 8:01 pm
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