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CRANKSHAFT FAILURE
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yours disgruntled
 


Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3
CRANKSHAFT FAILURE

Hi Guys

First posting so please bare with me. We are a family of five and bought our D3 from a LR main dealer 4 years ago. The car has had the usual D3 issues; handbreak seizure, turbo, air compressor etc luckily all replaced under the warranty. The car has been a good reliable family car with yearly trips down to the South of France and into Spain. The car has now covered 108K mls and has FLRSH at Yeovil and Guy Salmon.

However, lady luck has recently disserted our D3 and within the last couple of months we have had to replace both EGR v/v's, MAF sensor and front/rear arms, 4 wheel alignment and 4 new tyres. The front arms had been renewed 18 months ago, so were replaced again under the 2yr LR warranty. Guy Salmon said this was unprecedented!

But it gets better...having had the car serviced two weeks ago the car seized on the way home from Silverstone Classic. The car was recovered back to Guy Salmon who removed the oil filter to find swarf. A 'thread' was thus created back to Landrover UK in the hope of some form of contribution. Guy Salmon were of the opinion that this would be looked at favourably as the car had full LR service history and was purchased from a main dealer. Having waited almost a week for LR to reply....yep,you guessed it.....sorry Mr Disgruntled, but LR(UK) will not be contributing a jot as your car is 7yrs old and over 100Kmls....OUCH:-( It is not unknown for these engines to do 250K+mls, seen in Highways/Police D3's with regular servicing. If so ours is only half way through its life cycle...

Obviously LR can not admit to a design fault with their early crankshafts, as this would open the flood gates for several claims, although they did issue a Service bulletin SSM71816 in 2014! It would seem that their defense is, if your unhappy with our decision then take us to court. Knowing that few, if any, could afford such a luxury.

I note from 'landyonline' that a Margot Birbeck laid a complaint with the Motor Industry Ombudsman after a specific crankshaft bearing in her vehicle’s engine failed, causing the engine to seize. Does anybody know whether she or anyone else was or has been successful in getting LR to make a contribution through any of the Ombudsman? i understand that the Consumer Ombudsman was set up in Aug 15 to deal with car servicing issues?

Thanks for reading our ramble


Embarassed Big Cry
  
Post #16900759th Aug 2016 6:22 am
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sputnixb51
 


Member Since: 23 Apr 2013
Location: Morayshire
Posts: 667

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 3

Sorry to hear this, I wonder if the filter was fitted correctly at that last service or is it just bad luck!
  
Post #16900949th Aug 2016 7:45 am
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Disco_Mikey
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Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 16167

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

As above. Did the oil filter look crushed at all? Question
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Post #16900959th Aug 2016 7:49 am
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The Dundonian
 


Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Dundee
Posts: 1839

Scotland 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Barolo BlackDiscovery 4

Personally, I think you've done quite well with just having to pay out for MAF, ERG, 4 tyres and alingment, albeit other items were replaced under the warranty.

I have sympathy that the crankshaft has gone south and it was worth a try, even accepting the TSB in 2014 may or may not apply, but the car is 7 years old and over 100,000 miles, not purchased new from what you say, so I can understand LRs stance on the matter.

Anyway, I think your flogging a dead horse. Might be time to bite the bullet. Crying or Very sad
  
Post #16900979th Aug 2016 7:54 am
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 20794

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

So, now having let the dealer discuss with LR, you need to escalate your complaint to the EXEC office in LR. I assume that you've already dealt with LR customer Service.
Usually a letter or email to the exec office detailing this details will have your complaint taken a little more seriously.
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Post #16901009th Aug 2016 7:55 am
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wizbongre
 


Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 427

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

We experienced the same fault with our 57 plate D3, with complete engine failure and swarf in the filter all pointing to either snapped crankshaft or spun bearings. Spun bearings were most likely as it would turn over and start but sounded like a bag of spanners in a washing machine. Our local LR dealer took one look at it and confirmed it needed a new engine.

At the time, I think ours had about 95k on the clock (it was April 2015 when it let go and our car was registered September 2007) and had full service history albeit with some independents and some main dealers. From memory I think we are the 5th owners of the vehicle.

LR customer services liaised with us and our local dealers and after a short bit of back and forth they paid for the complete cost of a replacement engine and all work to fit it in our local dealer. They asked to see all paperwork for services which luckily I had (which is why people should always keep this with cars when they buy/sell them.)

There was a short argument where they wanted the engine to be stripped down to confirm the exact cause, when I pointed out I'd then be in a position of having a car in pieces with an invoice for the best part of £2k and no guarantee they'd contribute anything and then I'd have to pay a further £2k+ to move forward. Further, our local dealer was quite insistent that they didn't want to lose a day of one of their mechanic's time stripping an engine just to confirm what we all already knew.

It sounds like maybe there is a cutoff of 7 years or 100k miles which seems very harsh. If I were you, I'd try posting in the LR CS space on this forum and trying to make contact this way. I accept that they won't want to pay out for anyone and everyone but based on the detail in your post, it does seem harsh they have come back with a flat "no" on any contribution.

Good luck.
 Cheers,

Gareth

'57 D3 2.7 TDV6 HSE in Java Black over beige leather
Front A-frame, f+r light guards, privacy glass, cubby fridge, sidesteps, DabMotion, BAS FBHIC
'64 Audi A6 3.0BiTDi Quattro S-Line Black Edition with lots of toys
Nanocom Evolution owner Smile 
 
Post #16901069th Aug 2016 8:07 am
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yours disgruntled
 


Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your responses and voices of encouragement.

Having escalated my frustrations within CSC i have since had an offer of a 25% contribution, but on a £12K bill (based on parts at cost +10% and a heavily discounted main dealer labour rate) this is still a bitter bill to swallow....particularly for a Yorkshireman...

My options as i see them:
1. accept their offer as damage limitation
2. escalate again within CSC with a view to accept a pragmatic 50% contribution, although some members have received 100%
3. sell the car 'as is' and buy another, albeit it cashflow is tight at the moment. Anybody any idea as to how much a rolling chassis is worth with week old Scorpion tyres and lower suspension arms front and back replaced by LR with 2yr warranty?

Rolling with laughter
  
Post #16901179th Aug 2016 9:11 am
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Gareth
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Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 22721

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Fuji WhiteDiscovery 4

Escalate. I think you should be pushing for 100%

It's not as though it's just an inconvienient component failure. It's so significant as to write off the vehicle at just 7 yrs old and 107k miles.

In my book that is not fit for purpose.
  
Post #16901229th Aug 2016 9:20 am
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yours disgruntled
 


Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Anybody got an e-mail address for LR Exec Office?
Thanks
JB
  
Post #16901349th Aug 2016 9:52 am
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
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United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

You have an offer at least, so that's a positive start. I've sent you some further information Thumbs Up
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Post #16901399th Aug 2016 10:02 am
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Pete K
 


Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 1701

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Rimini RedDiscovery 3

What is the gist of Service bulletin SSM71816 in 2014 ?

It is to do with oil filter fitment ?
  
Post #16901859th Aug 2016 12:04 pm
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yours disgruntled
 


Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Hi Pete

Here is an extract from a 'landyonline' blog that can hopefully explain the salient points better than i:-

***********************************************************

Land Rover Discovery TDV6 engine failures making headlines
Land Rover Discovery 3 owners for some time now have had some worrying questions about the popular TDV6 engine used in the Land Rover Discovery 3. Sudden catastrophic engine failures linked with broken crankshafts have happened often on vehicles in South Africa, UK and Australia. With such wide range and frequency of occurrences it seems to point to the engine design and construction rather than servicing. Forums like 4x4community and Disco3.co.uk have had many threads on this topic.

In 2014 there was some confirmation of this problem when Land Rover published a Service bulletin SSM71816 CRANKSHAFT/CRANKSHAFT BEARING CONCERNS - TDV6 DIESEL ENGINE. According to the bulletin the issue and action is as follows:
"Issue:
Crankshaft/crankshaft bearing failure - TDv6 Diesel Engine.
Cause:
Low incidence of crankshaft failure are being encountered, caused mainly by incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use. A new procedure has been implemented to ensure:
- more rapid resolution of customer concerns, and
- greater visibility of failure modes in order to improve repair process and parts delivery.

Action:
For any suspected crankshaft/bearing failure, please contact your local Dealer Technical Supportor FRED team for details of the enhanced customer handling procedure.
The list below summarises typical symptoms of crankshaft/bearing failure, but please contact your DTS/FRED team if in any doubt as they will be pleased to offer assistance:
· Crankshaft is seized, engine cannot be turned either via starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt.
· Oil sump or engine cylinder block is holed, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris found on engine under-tray.
· Engine makes a loud ‘rumbling/knocking’ sound when running which worsens as the engine is placed under load. The engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds."
A recent article on iol.co.za titled Unease grows over Land Rover engine, highlights the problem and refers to the efforts by one owner to seek compensation from Land Rover after laying a claim with the Motor Industry Ombudsman.

"Land Rover Discovery owner Margot Birbeck has laid a complaint with the Motor Industry Ombudsman after a specific crankshaft bearing in her vehicle’s engine failed, causing the engine to seize.
Birbeck claimed that she had discovered that “hundreds of Land Rover engines” were failing as a result of the fault, which was ascribed to the incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use.
Models impacted included the Discovery 3 and 4, Range Rover and Range Rover Sport, Birbeck said. This was confirmed by Jaguar Land Rover South Africa."

The majority of vehicles affected by this problem are already out of warranty, especially all the Land Rover Discovery 3 models that were replaced in 2009 by the Discovery 4 model. This leaves owners in a precarious position being out of warranty and most often having left the formal service network for independent service centers. The question is does it matter? If it is a design or assembly fault then it needs to be fixed regardless? That is what you would expect from a leading profitable brand like Land Rover who rightly and proudly celebrates the fact that the majority of Land Rovers ever built

*********************************************************************
Although LR will argue that this is predominately refers to the 3.0 as opposed to 2.7's. These are fundamentally the same bottom end. Just the bore and stroke are different.
  
Post #16901949th Aug 2016 12:35 pm
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MALCOLM55
 


Member Since: 13 Sep 2016
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1

New Zealand 
Re: CRANKSHAFT FAILURE

You will all interested to know that as the owner of a 2010 Range Rover Sport , I have also suffered the same fate as the Discovery 3 owners with the TDV6 . Broken Crankshaft and seized bearing
My car has been service since new and only travelled 95000km. The vehicle whilst stopped at traffic light just stopped.It is now in pieces awaiting some sort of confirmation as to what Land Rover will do.
Having owned Mercedes and BMWs to say that I am less than impressed is an understatement. And to make matter worse last year I bought my wife a new 2015 RR Sport . Wonder how long it will last before dying. I am informed this is the first instance of this in New Zealand it will make make great media fodder something I intend to do if i get no satisfaction from Land Rover.
Cars of the value and supposed standard when serviced at regular scheduled intervals should not snap crankshafts.
I have endeavoured to get a copy of service bullet SSM71816 but to no avail so if anyone has a copy I would appreciate a copy as if we have to legal up we will need this.
Basically this engine is a dogs.
Finally on a more humorous note on taking delivery of my new RR Sport back in 2010 it was 7 days before I realised that the car had come with no spare Tyre it had been left off.
My email is malcolm@brint.co.nz if anyone has the service bulletin. I will advise on the this page the outcome of my issues once we find out what Land Rover if anything are going to do.
  
Post #170505513th Sep 2016 1:31 am
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Avalon
 


Member Since: 01 Apr 2013
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 22

Germany 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SCV6 HSE Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

Hi,

sorry to hear about your problem. The bulletin was posted here in the forum quite a while ago - http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic111733.html

Hope this helps getting it sorted with a good contribution from LR.


Regards,
Olaf
 Disco4 SCV6 HSE MY2014  
Post #170580514th Sep 2016 3:39 pm
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Charlie610
 


Member Since: 17 Sep 2014
Location: Dover
Posts: 78

United Kingdom 2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Nara BronzeDiscovery 4

Hi Mr Disgruntled

How did you get on with LR exec team?

I'm going through the same thing now and was wondering how you dealt with it?

Thanks
  
Post #170809819th Sep 2016 12:08 pm
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