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D4 battery musings
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TwoSheds
 


Member Since: 11 Sep 2018
Location: Royal Deeside, in a cottage on a hill
Posts: 25

Scotland 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4
D4 battery musings

I posted this on another forum, but wanted to put it here too...

The following post is full of my opinions... But my sources are multiple forum posts, and the following two sites: http://all-about-lead-acid-batteries.capnfatz.com and https://batteryuniversity.com

I am NOT AN EXPERT and anything you do to your car should NOT be based on this post without checking things yourself



Battery thoughts:

This Disco4 is the first car that I have owned with an AGM battery... And since I knew nothing about AGM batteries, I thought I would investigate and share my findings here:

AGM stands for "Absorbent Glass Mat" (or similar depending on what you read).

Prior to AGM, batteries would be 'wet' or 'gel'.

'Wet' is when there are lead and lead oxide plates surrounded by sulphuric acid. Since the plates are not too well supported, they have to be made from a lead alloy so that they are stronger and more able to resist knocks and vibration. Lead alloy is less effective electrically.

'Gel' is pretty much the same as wet, but with a gelling agent introduced in the acid to reduce the chances of spillage.

'AGM' is when the lead and lead oxide plates are separated and supported by a fine glass mat which also holds the acid like a sponge. Because the plates are rather better supported, they can be made from pure(r) lead which is more effective in the battery. An AGM battery is therefore stronger physically (more able to resist knocks etc) and better electrically. Some batteries spiral the lead-glass-lead oxide sandwiches into a drum shape and reflect that with the exterior shape of the battery.

An AGM battery needs (of maybe just benefits from) a different charging regime which is noticeable since the charging voltage will be around 14.7 volts rather than 14.4 volts for a wet or gel battery. For this reason the Discovery 4 and similar need to know what type of battery is connected. I think that all UK D4s were supplied with AGM batteries, so if you change to a wet or gel battery you need to tell the BMS (Battery Management System) or it might over charge the battery.

If you are replacing an AGM battery with a new AGM battery then there is no need to inform the car of the change. Also there should be no resetting of (radio etc) codes required as long as you don't leave the car batteryless for more time than necessary

So - what battery to fit? AGM is better in almost all situations so go for that, but be aware that if the car did have a wet battery then you need to tell the BMS that it's now an AGM!

Something else I picked up on my wanders through the world of lead-acid accumulators is that they like to be fully charged... They REALLY like to be fully charged. One comment was that keeping the battery topped up with a modern smart-charger can lengthen it's life by three times! One key point here is the phrase 'modern smart-charger' - old chargers wont be able to manage the charge well enough to get near this number. It appears from my researches that the most suitable charger for the D4 is the CTEK MXS 10 (if you can afford it).

Quote from some website somewhere: "The D4 is hard on it's battery"... As soon as you get in the car things start draining it, and when you press the button the battery really takes a hammering. I can take a few miles to put back in what you have just taken out so repeated short journeys can leave the battery in a reduced state of charge*. When I checked mine it was commonly running at around 75% charge with repeated 30 minute journeys. I am not sure if this is unusual or not, but having charged it with the above mentioned MXS 10, it is now (2 days later) still running at a higher charge than before. I am thinking that an overnight charge once a week will help prolong the life of the battery significantly. I feel that I should point out that the car was running fine on 75% charge, in fact a while ago it was sitting at about 50% and still running ok.

*Note that the modern alternator on the D4 should be capable of charging the battery even when sitting at the lights with screen heaters, seat heaters and lights on. It's really the length of time that the system has in which to charge the battery that counts.

Establishing the level of charge of a D4 battery is problematic since it is difficult to test the battery voltage without setting off multiple electrical drains, and the quoted voltages rely upon the battery having been standing with no drain for several (12?) hours. The voltages are also temperature dependent (perhaps counter-intuitively, a given battery will show a higher voltage at a lower temperature). On mine I took voltage readings from the trailer socket (see below) and compared it with figures here:http://all-about-lead-acid-batteries.capnf...orrection/ (although those figures are not for an AGM battery).

While on the subject of keeping the battery topped up, if the D4 has a 'caravan' towing socket (a '12S, 7 pin, white one) then the car can be charged through that socket as long as 10 amps is not exceeded... This is one reason why the MXS 10 was particularly mentioned above - it's maximum delivered current is 10 amps and so should be safe to use in this manner. The earth pin in the socket is the centre one and the constant live pin is the one at 9 o'clock (on the D4 socket - other cars may vary!). My plan is to use the 12S socket with a modified plug that will come out easily should I forget it and drive off. Very Happy

Well I think that's about it. I hope this helps someone, and if anyone spots anything potentially dangerous or wrong, please let me know and I will modify this post accordingly.

I repeat that I am NOT AN EXPERT and anything you do to your car should NOT be based on this post without checking things yourself


Cheers

Rog
 Disco4, Disco2, R1200R, CBX600FX, multiple Ham radios, and several bicycles...

All that lot and a tool fetish means that I seldom have more than two brass farthings to rub together. 


Last edited by TwoSheds on 19th Feb 2019 4:00 pm. Edited 2 times in total 
Post #203015019th Feb 2019 2:26 pm
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Bardley
 


Member Since: 02 May 2018
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 437

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

Nice concise post.. easy read too- thanks.
 2011 MY D4 HSE
Previously 2001 D2 TD5, 1996 D1 300Tdi, 1985 90 2.2 petrol.
Bikes! KTM, BMW, British, Classics and others.
 
 
Post #203015619th Feb 2019 2:56 pm
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M3DPO
 


Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8041

England 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

So good it should be put in the wiki section, - are you listening mods?
 It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't. 
 
Post #203016519th Feb 2019 3:18 pm
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner 


Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18439

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

Anyone can add to the wiki, but no-one listens to me Rolling Eyes Wink
 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know! 
 
Post #203018519th Feb 2019 4:45 pm
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DG
Site Moderator 


Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930

Wales 

M3DPO wrote:
So good it should be put in the wiki section, - are you listening mods?


and the concept of a wiki is ......

Thud

Laughing
 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021  
Post #203019019th Feb 2019 4:57 pm
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Fitzy73
 


Member Since: 09 Feb 2014
Location: Truro
Posts: 2407

United Kingdom 2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 XS Auto Causeway GreyDiscovery 4

Isn’t it something to do with hiding in a foreign embassy, or am I getting my wiki’s confused Whistle
 Andy

 
 
Post #203019119th Feb 2019 4:59 pm
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M3DPO
 


Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8041

England 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

DG wrote:
M3DPO wrote:
So good it should be put in the wiki section, - are you listening mods?


and the concept of a wiki is ......

Thud

Laughing


Pass!
 It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't. 
 
Post #203022019th Feb 2019 6:46 pm
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Littlewill
 


Member Since: 14 Sep 2015
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 484

England 2015 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Firenze RedDiscovery 4

Very interesting read. Thank you for posting Thumbs Up
  
Post #203022919th Feb 2019 7:23 pm
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Treetrimmer
 


Member Since: 17 May 2014
Location: Billericay, Essex
Posts: 109

United Kingdom 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Siberian SilverDiscovery 4

I second that. Very interesting read, and thank you for taking the time to post.
  
Post #203034620th Feb 2019 10:05 am
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Gary_P
 


Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1505

Ukraine 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

Thanks for the write up.
Couple of things:

I thought you have to do some sot of a reset or BMS change when you install a new battery, even if it is another AGM. People have stated an IID tool can do this. Is this correct?

I have a CTEK MSX 7.0. It has a recondition mode on it. I asked CTEK about using it with AGM batteries and they replied that it is not necessary nor will it benefit the battery to use it.

I too have heard the AGM battery needs to be nursed if you are not doing longer journeys or the car is going to sit for some time. As I understand it , you can get all sorts of errors coming up on the dash if the car thinks battery charge is low.

Well done and thanks again
Cheers
 Gary
-------------------------------------------

Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY 
 
Post #203040920th Feb 2019 1:40 pm
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James W
 


Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3056

United Kingdom 

I did ask on here when I changed my battery to a non-AGM type early last year, primarily to see if anybody locally could reset my BMS for me for the appropriate beer tokens. Nobody could (or would) and I have to admit, about a year on, and through many cold mornings, nothing has gone wrong, failed or caused any issues with the battery or charging that I can detect. The charging starts high when cold but soon drops down to 13.x volts after 5 mins or so, just as it did before. Battery holds charge very well. Just my experiences.
 D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - WTF does this button do 
 
Post #203041120th Feb 2019 1:53 pm
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Ceekay
 


Member Since: 17 May 2009
Location: Bury
Posts: 2057

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

Good Info Thumbs Up

I must of been lucky up to now as I charge my battery through the tow socket with my 25A Ctek and fingers crossed no blown fuse yet even when it sound like its boost charging at the start.
 D4 HSE Lux MY16 Club Waitomo
D3 HSE MY06 missing her still… 
 
Post #203041820th Feb 2019 2:22 pm
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Farmer Col
 


Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 263

United Kingdom 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

My understanding is that only D4's with stop/start have the AGM batteries.
My previous D4 had a wet battery and was still going strong after eight and a half years.
  
Post #203050220th Feb 2019 7:42 pm
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RONCH
 


Member Since: 12 Feb 2015
Location: Oberwil via North Wales
Posts: 83

Switzerland 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Orkney GreyDiscovery 4

My none stop/start D4 delivered mid Dec 2012 with an AGM battery installed.
  
Post #203075421st Feb 2019 2:22 pm
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TwoSheds
 


Member Since: 11 Sep 2018
Location: Royal Deeside, in a cottage on a hill
Posts: 25

Scotland 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4

Farmer Col wrote:
My understanding is that only D4's with stop/start have the AGM batteries.
My previous D4 had a wet battery and was still going strong after eight and a half years.


Sorry if I mislead. Since my car was 2nd hand I don't know what it had to start with, but read somewhere that all D4s have AGM batteries.
Rog
 Disco4, Disco2, R1200R, CBX600FX, multiple Ham radios, and several bicycles...

All that lot and a tool fetish means that I seldom have more than two brass farthings to rub together. 
 
Post #203076721st Feb 2019 2:54 pm
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