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Driving on sand
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Member Since: 24 Apr 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 16

United Arab Emirates 2009 LR3 4.4 V8 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverLR3
Driving on sand

Hmmm where to start.

So I live in Dubai and recently bought an 09 lr3 v8 hse. Not too sure on total spec but it does have locking diffs and runs on 19inch wheels. Primary use is as my daily driver and tow car/parts hauler but I also wanted to get back into camping and off-roading. Out here that means desert driving.

I used to have a lifted/big wheel wrangler which, whilst underpowered and terrible in road, was totally at home in deep sand and would literally go anywhere you pointed it. Now I realise the lr3 is a different proposition entirely, but I wondered whether anyone here has any experience with our cars on deep sand/dunes and what tips you have for making it more suitable.

I'm planning an easy run out this Friday, mainly undulating trails and gatch tracks. I've been on this route before with a standard p38 Rangerover and that performed capably without even letting the tyres down. My main worry is that if I do get stuck I'm fairly Censored as letting the pressures down on such a low profile sidewall is not going to help much.

Are there any off-road tyres available in an R19 size or do I need to find a set of 18s? Would a taller profile even in R18 require a lift (thinking Johnson rods or similar) and how badly would that affect on road performance?

My mate takes his cayenne gts in the dunes regularly (albeit on 18s) and it performs well on anything other than cresting the pointier dunes for which you really need swb. I like to think the lr3 can at least keep up with him, but really looking for help in getting it there. All advice welcome!
  
Post #18123357th May 2017 10:25 pm
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SafariDave
 


Member Since: 19 Nov 2011
Location: NYC & LA
Posts: 461

United States 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 SE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

In the 255 55 19 , best off road tire including Sand, etc is the Goodyear Duratrac. There is a new Continental TerrainContact A/T.
I drove on sand in the California desert on 255 60 18 Nitto Terrra Grapplers standard size. I deflated very little, but it was fine. When on lifted mode you can only go about 20-30mph if faster the suspension goes back to normal height. I guess for heavy sand I would do 265 65 18 sand tires.
18" would be best bet, but if just tires for your 19's there are just a few with an extra 1" hight, the Goodyear Adventurer AT with kevlar in 255 60 19, the Nitto NT421Q 255 60 19 in XL. Also Scorpion Zero 275 55 19 111V, Dueler Alenza and Continental 4x4 contact also in 111V. Not sand tires, but you have at least a bit more tire to deflate.


Dave
 LR3 2005 V8 SE Bonatti Grey "The Rhino"
De-tangoed Headlights, LR4 14-16 Style Grille, LR4 19" Wheels/ Bridgestone Alenza 
 
Post #18123478th May 2017 12:28 am
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Member Since: 24 Apr 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 16

United Arab Emirates 2009 LR3 4.4 V8 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverLR3

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll be ok this Friday but will report back. A colleague is selling his lr4 so I might buy his r18 compomotives. When he bought them new he told his wife I sold him them for 200quid so if I negotiate in front of her I should get a decent bargain!
  
Post #18129339th May 2017 12:25 pm
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert 


Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 9994

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Firenze RedDiscovery 4

Top tip I found in Morocco, the DSC when off is not actually off. So if you go charging at a dune the DSC will still kick in and kill the power. If you drive a little steadier (under the DSC threshold) the car will go most places. The best person I have seen drive a D3 in the sand and get most places is my wife Shocked So drive it like a girl and you will go further Thumbs Up

We dropped the pressure to 20psi and had no issues with 19" Duratrac's
 In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.  
Post #18129519th May 2017 1:19 pm
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Dr LC8
 


Member Since: 31 Jul 2015
Location: Manchester but from Rome
Posts: 164

United Kingdom 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 GS Auto Nara BronzeDiscovery 4

I never drove my my D4 on the sand but I did drive several other cars in sand and dunes, including Dubai and Oman.

As far as tyres are concerned, as all 4x4 guides and book authors agreed, to drive in sand you need narrow and high profile (side wall) tyre. Been narrow they have less rolling resistance, they break through sand easier, they form less mass of sand in front of them and most importantly by deflating the tyre you get long foot print still with little resistance. What let you have traction on sand is the caterpillar like foot print rather than a wide foot print.

This is the theory. Then you need to deal with your car. D4s are a real headache because there are no OEM wheels smaller than 19. Couple of after market 18' which will give some advantages but not much. once you have fitted something like a 275/65/18 whatever you have gained in hight you lost it in width which is worse than the original I would think.

D3 are easier. You can fit 17' wheel with a 245/75 which is just 4.5% taller but a bit narrower. I believe given the car this is the best combination.You have a choice of all terrain tyres such as Cooper and BFG.

As per tyres pure sand tyres are pretty smooth. However travelling often in the sahara across different countries most 4x4 (local and european tourists) use all terrain tyres.

This is my opinion and my experience. I hope it helps.

Next time I am in Dubai we go for a drive.

Nic








  
Post #18129619th May 2017 1:51 pm
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin 


Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 56337

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 4

Ah, happy days. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Click image to enlarge


And re tyres, less aggressive the better, plus higher profile the better, down at 16psi. Thumbs Up
 

11 D4 HSE - just Dee, no more Double Disco. Sad 
 
Post #18129939th May 2017 2:53 pm
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert 


Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 9994

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Firenze RedDiscovery 4

The thing is in Morocco its not all Sand there are some nasty rocks, so the Duratrac were the tyre of choice at the time.
 In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded. 

Last edited by AndrewS on 9th May 2017 4:20 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #18130009th May 2017 3:05 pm
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Hardware17
 


Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1684

England 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4

DSL was on Southport beach ... that's why they've banned 4x4s Mr. Green
 Dean.
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port custom protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer Sad ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms 
 
Post #18130019th May 2017 3:07 pm
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin 


Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 56337

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 4

Wasn't my fault gov, I was following him. Whistle

Click image to enlarge


Well until this happened. Whistle

Click image to enlarge
 

11 D4 HSE - just Dee, no more Double Disco. Sad 
 
Post #18130089th May 2017 3:13 pm
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert 


Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 9994

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Firenze RedDiscovery 4

Well if you'd listened and gone for 19" Duratrac's at 20psi you wouldnt have got stuck Whistle Whistle
 In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.  
Post #18130339th May 2017 4:20 pm
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SafariDave
 


Member Since: 19 Nov 2011
Location: NYC & LA
Posts: 461

United States 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 SE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

That's why I thought 255 65 18 is taller or maybe 255 70 18.
Dave
 LR3 2005 V8 SE Bonatti Grey "The Rhino"
De-tangoed Headlights, LR4 14-16 Style Grille, LR4 19" Wheels/ Bridgestone Alenza 
 
Post #18130409th May 2017 4:35 pm
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Antjp
 


Member Since: 09 Aug 2013
Location: Warringon
Posts: 299

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

Use the accelerator steady, dsc off, in the correct setting and they go anywhere. Duratracks are a brilliant all rounder choice of tyre if you only want 1 set for everything. That's my opinion anyway.
  
Post #18130489th May 2017 4:51 pm
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin 


Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 56337

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 4

AndrewS wrote:
Well if you'd listened and gone for 19" Duratrac's at 20psi you wouldnt have got stuck Whistle Whistle


I'll point that out to Rescue01. Whistle Whistle Laughing
 

11 D4 HSE - just Dee, no more Double Disco. Sad 
 
Post #18130509th May 2017 5:02 pm
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Ken
  


Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: In my Bowler
Posts: 10438

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

I remember the days when Derek always got stuck Rolling with laughter
 Ive wasted ten years of my life on this forum bring back the originals  
Post #18130529th May 2017 5:12 pm
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Dr LC8
 


Member Since: 31 Jul 2015
Location: Manchester but from Rome
Posts: 164

United Kingdom 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 GS Auto Nara BronzeDiscovery 4

Tyres: I agree and as I said, no aggressive tyres. Certainly not mud tyres.
Travellers/overladers all use all terrains. They are reinforced so can cope well with hard/rocky compound and tolerate low PSI in the sand.

I have done an extensive research on tyres choices:

19' wheels: in essence you can only fit standard 255/55. Large selection of A/T. Not ideal for sand and rocks. Low profile: no much deflation effect on sand and reduced shock absorption. This results in a harder driving and high(er) chance of tyre damage.

18' wheels (For D4 245bhp and over modes only wheels available are compomotive and mudtech4x4): standard 255/60 gives you a bit better then the 19. Still relative low profile. Large selection of tyres out there. On standard rods you can still fit 265/60 or 265/65 (both available in A/T). They won't any better on sandbox definitively better when cruising on pists in desert. I gather even better on crawling. But they have an increase rolling resistance and worse fuel economy.
You can also fit 275/65 with lift roads. I am not convinced about it. Depends what you do. Definitively not something I would advice for sand driving.

A friend has 275/65 18 Cooper STT. I have 255/55/19 Cooper Zeon LTZ A/T. He has roof rack I don't.
We drove in tandem Manchester to Peterborough last year to go to LRO Show. He consumed an excess of 33% more of Diesel! Without mentioning the noise inside.

For 17' wheels I mentioned it above. If I had a D3 to use in the desert and rocky mountains around Dubai/Oman I wouldn't have the smallest doubt: BFG All Terrain KO 245/75/17. On sand pressure can go as low as 1 Bar if needed.
To overcome the TC effect(most of the time better than the driver) you can also consider to fit an ARB rear diff lock.

Ciao

Nic
 

Last edited by Dr LC8 on 9th May 2017 5:35 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #18130539th May 2017 5:15 pm
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