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EGR Delete, Blank & Remap 07-09 U.K EU4 Vehicles.
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Reddahaydn
 


Member Since: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Chawton WhiteDiscovery 3

I've been told not to remove the butterfly as it provides torque dampening right just before changing gears to reduce stress on the gearbox, what's your thoughts on that?

Everywhere else I have read the general consensus is to remove the butterfly?

Cheers
 2007 Disco 3 2.7 TDV6
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Post #14957972nd Jul 2015 3:07 am
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Syd
 


Member Since: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Spain & Hampshire UK
Posts: 858

United Kingdom 

Reddahaydn
Basically your vehicle would never see a case of both the Butterfly flap and EGR Valves being closed at the same time.
Simplistically.
Wide open throttle, EGR valves closes and Butterfly fully open.
Partial throttle / light load driving butterfly flap only open a tad and EGR valves open.

If you leave the butterfly flap in place then you could put the engine in a situation it was never designed for, EGR closed (due to being blanked) and butterfly closed (as on overrun) this would create a vacuum/depression within the engine, that could cause damage to engine seals etc.

I guess in the worse case even result in oil pullover.

There you go. clear as mud
Syd
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Post #14958292nd Jul 2015 8:02 am
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Reddahaydn
 


Member Since: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Chawton WhiteDiscovery 3

Thanks mate - Interesting. makes sense to a point - However - does the butterfly flap on the intake every fully close?

If it did close fully and EGRs were fully open (when not blanked off), all you would be getting is exhaust gas which has Censored all oxygen in it, so you wouldn't get much fuel burning. My 'limited' understanding of EGRs is that they only recirculate a little of the exhaust gas to mix with the oxygen from the intake - to lower the combustion chamber temperature which is how they reduce pollution.


Just found this - and I know wiki isn't the bible, but this says up to 50% EGR mix, so your butterfly is never going to fully close?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

Happy to stand corrected if I am wrong. Cheers
 2007 Disco 3 2.7 TDV6
LLAMS / 265/65/18 BFG ATs / Safari Snorkel / Spare wheel carrier / 100L Long range tank / Traxide SC40 dual battery isolator / Optima Yellow Top / Autologic Remap / Front Runner Slimline II Roof Rack / Cross drilled and slotted rotors and ceramic pads / Front Runner drawers / UHF / Rasta front skid plate / Waeco CF50 / Mitch Hitch / Tint / Parrot MKi9200 Bluetooth Phone & Audio 
 
Post #14962913rd Jul 2015 2:14 am
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Syd
 


Member Since: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Spain & Hampshire UK
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Reddahaydn

Going down hill, foot off the throttle, then the butterfly will be closed, however the EGR's will not be closed.

Syd
 In Spain - 2018 F Pace - Down and out's Velar
In UK - Dare not say on this Forum
Gone - Lots of Lode Lane vehicles.
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Post #14963253rd Jul 2015 7:51 am
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lynalldiscovery
 


Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
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United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Metropolis LE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Im not so sure about that as when going down hill with foot off the throttle I would guess injectors are not injecting so no combustion is taking place so egr not actually doing nowt?
  
Post #14963313rd Jul 2015 8:05 am
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Robbie
 


Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
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United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 4

With negative torque the engine does go into Diesel Fuel Shut Off (DFSO) mode so the injectors stop squirting in the diesel. Pulse width limits on the injectors is one of the major reasons for this mode as once the pulses get so short they lose their linear response and rich/lean management becomes an issue. There are exceptions to the DFSO strategy to help control cat and DPF temps, but only at the extremes.

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Post #14963433rd Jul 2015 8:24 am
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alex_pescaru
 


Member Since: 19 Dec 2010
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Romania 

Sorry for asking, but we are talking here about the butterfly valve on the intake path on a diesel engine?
If so, from what I know, the butterfly valve will fully close on engine shutdown in order to reduce engine shudder and partially close when regenerating the DPF in order to help raising the EGT.
Otherwise the butterfly valve will be fully open all the time.
On a gasoline engine this will be a complete different story.
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Post #14965663rd Jul 2015 5:29 pm
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geoff.
 


Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
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England 

so what are you saying alex , is it a good thing or bad thing to remove the butter fly Question
  
Post #14966723rd Jul 2015 8:48 pm
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alex_pescaru
 


Member Since: 19 Dec 2010
Location: Constanta
Posts: 253

Romania 

I, for one, I will never remove it because that valve has another role.
In the unfortunate event of oil entering the inlet manifold (turbo bearings failure, for example), the engine RPM will rise uncontrolable. The ECU will see this and fully close the butterfly flap in order to stop the engine. So you will not ruin your engine as in the case when you removed the valve.
 There are only 2 things to make the universe work properly - Duct tape and WD40.
If it moves and it shouldn't - Duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should - WD40.
Everything else is just stuff.
 
 
Post #14967954th Jul 2015 7:31 am
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
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Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

But the butterfly is not a perfect seal, and air will still pass the flap, and will do nothing to prevent an engine runaway

FWIW, I have not noticed a difference in engine shut down between those with, and those without the butterfly flap...
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Post #14967984th Jul 2015 7:38 am
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Lost for Words
 


Member Since: 03 Sep 2013
Location: Warminster, Wiltshire
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United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

alex_pescaru wrote:
If so, from what I know, the butterfly valve will fully close on engine shutdown in order to reduce engine shudder and partially close when regenerating the DPF in order to help raising the EGT.


Alex, only the models without DPFs (all UK spec D3s) can be blanked anyway. Thumbs Up
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Post #14968154th Jul 2015 8:42 am
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Reddahaydn
 


Member Since: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Chawton WhiteDiscovery 3

So if the butterfly doesnt seal enough to stop an engine runaway, it also wont seal enough to create a vaccum in the engine that can do any kind of damage.

From someone who has played with holding rags over a snorkel head, the engine starts dying well before the inlet is fully covered. Imo the butterfly closing would be plenty to stop a engine runaway.

As to whether doing that creates a vaccum i dont know.
 2007 Disco 3 2.7 TDV6
LLAMS / 265/65/18 BFG ATs / Safari Snorkel / Spare wheel carrier / 100L Long range tank / Traxide SC40 dual battery isolator / Optima Yellow Top / Autologic Remap / Front Runner Slimline II Roof Rack / Cross drilled and slotted rotors and ceramic pads / Front Runner drawers / UHF / Rasta front skid plate / Waeco CF50 / Mitch Hitch / Tint / Parrot MKi9200 Bluetooth Phone & Audio 
 
Post #14976175th Jul 2015 11:22 pm
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lukeangus
 


Member Since: 22 Aug 2016
Location: san jose costa rica
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2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Indus SilverDiscovery 3

Details on this please?
  
Post #202231425th Jan 2019 6:55 pm
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furnitureman
 


Member Since: 30 Apr 2015
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United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Lugano TealDiscovery 3

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Post #202232325th Jan 2019 7:16 pm
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lukeangus
 


Member Since: 22 Aug 2016
Location: san jose costa rica
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2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Indus SilverDiscovery 3

Indeed, I am not very techy when it comes to cars, but getting royally Censored where I live on parts and as I am not very techy, I have no idea if this is worth doing or how to do it! Parts here are double what they are in the UK!
  
Post #202233825th Jan 2019 7:41 pm
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