Having accumulated fractionally more experience since January, I happily set off for another trip to the same mountain yesterday, confident that despite still wearing my P0s, both myself and the car would perform better. To a big extent I was vindicated, passing through 3 foot deep drenches of muddy slush, marshland and muddy streams without breaking a sweat (the near freezing weather may have had something to do with it too!)
Shortly before calling it a day to head for the tavern, we all decided to take a final detour which looked challenging. I'll describe the track through the forest as best I can: gradual gradient increase to a terminal (literally) 30-odd degrees, soft mud (potting clay consistency), width for about 1 1/2 D3s with logs chopped/fallen either side. Straight line with a 60-ish degrees right turn leading to a plateau where we all decided to stop. It was drizzling all day and about 4 C as the sun had set... The Disco was already up to operating temperature as it had been running all day, mud had already covered everything...
My hopes of making it to the top by now were high, though my previous embarrassment was ever present in the back of my mind. Was running the tyres at 2 bar all day as mostly dealing with mud. Battery checked and secure, DSC was off, high range, mud ruts program selected, manual gear selection on 1st then second, straight tackled relatively easily with some wheel spin. Coming up to the bend, back to first as the D3 started to struggle, floored it to keep momentum (probably doing about 7-10mph), and, alas, as I go into the bend the wheels start spinning frantically... Gear up to second - no effect, still edging forward though... some bark on the ground further up gives me hope of traction... but, even as I move at a snails pace, the engine cuts off! (no time to look if rear diff had locked either...)
I think I briefly saw the words "transmission", "engine" and "fault" on the display, but by the time I actually looked at the instrument cluster, it had gone back to the normal position II display (test lights, temp etc). Needless to say, wouldn't start, unless the key was removed and re-inserted.
Of course, I am primarily open to the suggestion this is my fault and "normal" self-protection behaviour. On the other hand however, and having now twice had the same symptom, with other forum members having had similar experiences (someone pointed me to a Youtube video of the exact same thing happening to another D3 on a sandy hill), I refuse to believe the best 4x4 out there would switch off the engine when needed most, while still in marginal motion.
If I am right, and the ETC gets over-eager to request an ignition and/or fuel cut-off like phurley suggested in my other post, and given the event is replicable, wouldn't this be classed as a bug in the DSC/ETC software? And why would an effective reset be required (removing the key) to restart? I am thinking of writing in to LR about this, so thoughts of wise men and women would be very welcome...
(just realised at the length here - sorry, got carried away... Here's a few snaps as well - not from the incident - worth submitting for the calender???)
21st Dec 2009 4:58 pm
discoBizz
Member Since: 20 Sep 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1416
OK, so the post may have been too long to read and respond....
Can I just then ask what thoughts are on the last paragraph:
"If I am right, and the ETC gets over-eager to request an ignition and/or fuel cut-off like phurley suggested in my other post, and given the event is replicable, wouldn't this be classed as a bug in the DSC/ETC software? And why would an effective reset be required (removing the key) to restart? I am thinking of writing in to LR about this..."
Thanks!
22nd Dec 2009 11:11 am
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
Biz,
My car does the same in certain conditions. It's not a fault, it's a feature.
Someone with more know-how than me will be along to explain, but if you search for long enough, you'll find a thread or two on this subject.
22nd Dec 2009 1:12 pm
discoBizz
Member Since: 20 Sep 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1416
Cheers NJF!
I did try several search terms and browsed through a number of posts without finding something the first time around. Will do another search...
If it is a feature indeed, can anyone shed some light as to what I did wrong or how one should tackle such a terrain (other than the obvious of changing the tyres )
22nd Dec 2009 2:10 pm
Donald
Member Since: 15 May 2007
Location: Inverness
Posts: 188
Hi Biz,
you should be in low range if you have selected a special program from terrain response, you say you were in high range?
Did you manually override the set up? if so you will have deseleted the program.
You also say you started in first going up to second on command shift. You should try command shift third which will let your auto box change up to third, reducing wheel spin, hence better traction, hence more progress.
The auto box in drive can cope pretty wel on it's own at knowing the best gear to match power, traction etc.
You are right to disengage DSC.
Hope this helps,DonaldChipped, K&N, tow pack, AT2's, Mantec, fridge in boot, invertor, Garmin, laptop/Memory Map, Optima yellow top, Traxide Kit, Phillips Extreme bulbs
22nd Dec 2009 9:19 pm
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
I should explain more. This has happened to me in low range, command shift 2, DSC off, with TC off and at other times in mud+ruts, sand and GGS. The only TC mode I did not try was rock crawl. Next time I go to Bridel Quarry (where this horrid hill is) I will try rock crawl. Eventually, my technique (and every other LR driver's technique, no matter D3, Deafener or other type) for getting up this hill was plenty of gas, early, and keep on the gas until you get to the top. It is not mechanically very "sympathetic" to the car.
I do remember (a) Jeeps coping with the hill much better - in fact with very sure progress and no great use of the throttle - and (b) others on this site experienced engine cut off. AndrewS posted a video more than a year ago. IIRC.
22nd Dec 2009 9:33 pm
Donald
Member Since: 15 May 2007
Location: Inverness
Posts: 188
NJF,
sometimes there's nothing like the old low third and plenty of go pedal! I use it in my Defender frequently.
Now you mention it, I remember Andrew S having this problem and seeing the video.
Andrew, if you are about, did you ever suss this out?
DonaldChipped, K&N, tow pack, AT2's, Mantec, fridge in boot, invertor, Garmin, laptop/Memory Map, Optima yellow top, Traxide Kit, Phillips Extreme bulbs
22nd Dec 2009 9:49 pm
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
Last post from AndrewS on 26 November 2009.
22nd Dec 2009 10:11 pm
discoBizz
Member Since: 20 Sep 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1416
Thanks both.
Donald, as far as I can tell, other than rock crawl which forces low range, all other programs allow for either high or low. I opted for high to get more speed=momentum as I have discovered this is the only way to tackle steep muddy hills, at least with my current tyres.
On my previous encounter, I did try both high and low, and even tried rock crawl without success.
Still puzzled at this "feature" though: what are the causes, what engages it and surely isn't it dangerous? (an engine cut-off in the middle of a steep hill also means no servo assistance, no power steering, not much control of the car altogether...)
(PS: IIRC it was AndrewS video I saw: was the incident on a sandy hill with a red D3?)
23rd Dec 2009 7:08 am
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
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(no time to look if rear diff had locked either...)
Here's a few snaps as well - not from the incident - worth submitting for the calender???)
