Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Pics of Oil Filter
27th Mar 2021 4:44 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Well, although metal particles are never a good sign... is does not look directly as a major failure of a spun bearing... my filter picture was taken after less than 2 miles after the knocking started...
your particles can still be from a broken internal chain tensioner or like wise...
are all of the particles magnetic?Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
27th Mar 2021 4:51 pm
arthurdent
Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Motolab, thanks...hope still? This has run for probably 30-odd miles since 1st hearing the tapping to parking up 'for good'. If it was an internal tensioner, would it still be an engine-out job? I'm afraid I know nothing about how they work. My issue is I don't have the capability to do any significant repairs myself - don't even have a drive way, let alone a garage - so it would mean booking it in somewhere. As the car's probably not worth much more than 2.5-3k-ish when working, justifying (and affording) spending much on it is tough...that said, my preference would be to keep it going! Managed to keep my old 300tdi going for longer than I probably should have done!!!
I'm in the middle of trying to find a suitable magnet to check the fragments. Do you know the likely source if magnetic vs non-magnetic?
Cheers,
27th Mar 2021 6:01 pm
arthurdent
Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Not Magnetic - from what I can tell. A reasonably strong magnet did not pick up any of the fragments at all.
I guess bearings are stainless and so non-magnetic, whilst something like a tensioner I expect would be some grade of magnetic steel? (but I am guessing here - did try the internet, but material does not seem to be mentioned).
Thoughts welcomed.
Ta,
27th Mar 2021 6:25 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Well stainless in an engine, is not very common...
Bearing shells are layered...the base is steel, then copper, then white metal...
So the first damage, when there is oil starvation, for whatever reason, the white metal goes first..
White metal is non metallic.....
From memory... you had an oil level issue? When you have... assumptions can be made in that direction, but they remain assumptions.... you never know for sure until the real cause seen inside...
If you are not capable doing spannering on an engine yourself, you can maybe find someone who will remove the manifolds, to check if chains and or spanners are ok or the cause, spend a lets say 300 quid on that? If they are the reason, it is not too expensive to repair, when there allready...there/open ( some on will popup with parts pricing, i did never buy them, so do not know...)
And you have still your beloved discovery on the road..
If not the reason... you can always scrap the whole motor...Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
27th Mar 2021 7:47 pm
Ruarz
Member Since: 17 Oct 2020
Location: Fife
Posts: 21
Mine was making a similar noise when I bought it though not quite as loud.
Turned out to be both cam chain tensioners had gone.
Must have done at least a few thousand miles in that state judging by the amount of debris in the oil filter.
Easiest way to be sure is drop the sump and oil strainer and see if theres any lumps of metal and plastic that look like these:
27th Mar 2021 8:05 pm
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2459
If the tensioners have failed you may need to drop the sump as i have had one that had the tensioners replaced but the bits of the old one dropped into the sump and got sucked up into the oil pump pick up filterAndrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
27th Mar 2021 8:34 pm
arthurdent
Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Motolab, thanks for the info. Yeh makes some sense. Shame to scrap if it is a relatively easy/cheap fix. I can handle a few hundred quid, but it's not worth getting into triple figures (or possible according to my wallet) ...well depends how far into them I guess. Would be very nice to keep it chugging. And with Ruarz's pics (WOW), there seems some realistic possibility that it may not be a main bearing and could be - as you eluded to - something like a tensioner.
Ruarz, that's a load of chunks! I would not think it be possible to run for several K's with all that knocking about!!! Did you replace them yourself, or get a garage to sort it? Do you know what the process was? i.e. head off, or engine-out? Was it particularly expensive to sort? Any info welcomed
Aja4x4, thanks for the info. Ties in with Ruarz's experience too. I just REALLY hope that it is something I can get sorted.
Earliest I can get it booked in for someone to look at is 7th April! ...at the place I think is best to go anyway. So, I'll relay my findings and some of the thoughts and experiences from you guys to them and see what happens. Will update on here either way.
Thanks again for everyone's input. It's been very helpful and is much appreciated. Even if it is worst case, I've learnt a little more from here (once again!)!
Cheers.
27th Mar 2021 9:17 pm
Ruarz
Member Since: 17 Oct 2020
Location: Fife
Posts: 21
Time will tell what sort of damage they've done I suppose but I got it cheap so only need to last a while to be worth it
Pretty straight forward job just a bit time consuming:
Injectors and pipework out.
Egr pipes off.
Throttle body off.
Inlet manifolds off.
Cam belt off.
Camshafts loosened enough to wiggle out the tensioners.
If your changing the chains aswell (which you may as well after going this far) you need to more or less remove the camshafts. Probably looking at a days labour at a decent garage.
27th Mar 2021 9:53 pm
arthurdent
Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Haha, well fingers crossed it lasts longer than you expect!
Thanks for the detail. Doesn't sound too bad at all...really. Just wish I had the space (and time), as it's something I'd "happily" do. Managed to do head gasket, wheel bearings, suspension lift and clutch amongst other things on my old 300tdi, all on the side of the road (at different times)...but getting too old and cautious to be doing stuff on the road anymore. Oh, then there's my back and my lovely soft hands to consider.
Plus, there's no Haynes manual for the D3!!!
Cheers.
27th Mar 2021 10:35 pm
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2863
Quote:
Plus, there's no Haynes manual for the D3!!! Big Cry
There is ... Its part number - 5562
Theres also the JLR manuals floating about on here as well. If you need Technical information you can always post questions in advance or pay for a short term Topix access as well via the JLR Topix website.
Must stop buying shiny toys....
27th Mar 2021 10:43 pm
arthurdent
Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Darrind! I thought Haynes had essentially ceased many moons ago! I have a copy of the JLR manual, but it seems somewhat limited in comparison. Not come across Topix but will have a look. Still scuppered with space to work, but most definitely worth acquiring a Haynes manual I'm sure. Thank you!
27th Mar 2021 11:50 pm
arthurdent
Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Thought I'd give an interim update, in case anyone was wondering...
Finally dropped it off yesterday morning, they had a stethoscope around the engine and suspect the right-hand (I think) bank area. Specifically, they are reckoning the chain tensioner - I think MotoLab and Ruarz suggested this as a possibility.
So, just waiting for a slot (hopefully tomorrow) when they'll take the head off and have a closer look. Whilst it's not guaranteed just yet, it's sounding like its a feasible fix - although only just. If it is the tensioner, then it's still gonna be a hefty bill (...I really do need to get a garage erected...), but nothing like trying to find a replacement vehicle!
I'll post what happens!
Cheers,
8th Apr 2021 8:18 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Ahum, why the whole head off for just a chain and tensioner?
I recon “just” the manifold and ancillary’s “above”/around it is sufficient....
Will safe you a “few” quid Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
8th Apr 2021 8:33 pm
arthurdent
Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 52
Well, perhaps I'm making that bit up ...or remembering what the office told me over the phone wrong...or both! Thinking about it again, she definitely said they'll be able to confirm or otherwise after they've stripped it down! So, I'm sure they'll not be doing more than they need!
I'll quiz them on what they do... hopefully tomorrow!
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Yeh makes some sense. Shame to scrap if it is a relatively easy/cheap fix. I can handle a few hundred quid, but it's not worth getting into triple figures (or possible according to my wallet) ...well depends how far into them I guess. Would be very nice to keep it chugging. And with Ruarz's pics (WOW), there seems some realistic possibility that it may not be a main bearing and could be - as you eluded to - something like a tensioner.
...at the place I think is best to go anyway. So, I'll relay my findings and some of the thoughts and experiences from you guys to them and see what happens. Will update on here either way.
I thought Haynes had essentially ceased many moons ago! I have a copy of the JLR manual, but it seems somewhat limited in comparison. Not come across Topix but will have a look. Still scuppered with space to work, but most definitely worth acquiring a Haynes manual I'm sure. Thank you!
...or remembering what the office told me over the phone wrong...or both! Thinking about it again, she definitely said they'll be able to confirm or otherwise after they've stripped it down! So, I'm sure they'll not be doing more than they need!
