Member Since: 19 Sep 2016
Location: Pretoria
Posts: 105
What fuel pressure are you getting on the rail while cranking ? Timing is correct if you have no camshaft sensor error codes. Assume trigger wheel hole is on the third hole clockwise from the dowel hole ?
3rd Sep 2023 10:31 am
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
I can't remember in which position the trigger wheel was - wish I took a photo.
I had a look at the graphs again, it looks like the fuel pressure fluctuates with the rpm at which the starter spins the engine and at drops to a low of 18K at 110rpm and peaks at about 48K at 280rpm
Click image to enlarge
3rd Sep 2023 5:09 pm
MikeBob
Member Since: 19 Sep 2016
Location: Pretoria
Posts: 105
You need to check that trigger wheel first. Fuel pressure is high. Vehicle should start at around 100 bar. Idle around 240 bar
Last edited by MikeBob on 4th Sep 2023 4:16 am. Edited 1 time in total
3rd Sep 2023 6:23 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4658
Minimum injector operating (start) pressure is 150 bar, max HPFP system pressure is 1,650 bar but I doubt in the real world that figure is achieved very often.
You would seem to have more than enough fuel pressure, so the problem lies elsewhere. Do you have any fault codes?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Sep 2023 7:16 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Fault codes most of the time none engine related, but once or twice that I did get one engine related fro crankshaft position sensor. At the time I though it might just be because the engine didn't start.
So my plan now:
1.) Check timing using positive stop - if it is out I can correct and test.
2.) If no fault found looking at the timing I will proceed to check the trigger wheel - will have to make the decision if I will pull the engine again (I do it body on) or if I drop the gearbox to gain access to the trigger wheel. By checking I mean I might replace the trigger wheel again (possibly with OEM part) and maybe I should change the CPS as well? OR maybe bite the bullet on a Hantek 1008 entry level oscilloscope, but if it proves what I suspect I will still have to take out the engine/drop the gearbox.
This might well be another couple of months for me, at least it is spring now, so I might get more daylight after work (sun currently sets 18:30, and I get home at about 17:30, hence Saturdays being more productive for me).
4th Sep 2023 7:43 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4658
See if you can get it to throw up codes by repeated start cycles but make certain the battery is fully charged and kept charged!
If you get codes, crank related or otherwise they're likely your route to solving this.
Write down any existing codes before you begin, but record everything that pops up for future reference.(screen shot) And post them here, lastly, make sure you have "pending codes" selected! yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
4th Sep 2023 1:49 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Ok, so after a bit of a break, I started to work on removing the AC compressor today, I am about 4 hours in, so still some work to do.
After seeing this video: https://youtu.be/BRWti8nwoAA?si=YHtkrNLLBWh8Z0Vs I don't feel too bad, still going to take some time...
7th Oct 2023 4:19 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
got a pair of hose clip pliers today, why didn't I buy one ages ago? Any case, ac compressor is off now. So this coming weekend I'll verify the timing using the positive stop. If the timing is fine, then the engine will have to come out again so that I can check that trigger wheel's installation - will probably mean buying a new one, again..
10th Oct 2023 7:45 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Seems timing was out by one tooth. Enough to prohibit it from starting? I don't know. Rectified the timing and will assemble everything again. Must say the positive stop does save a bit of time since you don't have to remove the starter.
14th Oct 2023 5:27 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Click image to enlarge
Result after double checking the timing belt installation, looked like belt was out one tooth. Doubt it would have caused the no start. What is interesting though is the 3 errors that I see now.
Click image to enlarge
So looks looks like trigger wheel. Guess it would be better to gonwith geniune part. Maybe Citroën.
29th Oct 2023 9:14 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13912
You've been on a journey with this. Hope the crank sensor is your final answer.New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
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BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
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Prospeed ladder
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29th Oct 2023 10:34 am
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
yes, thank you. Contemplating if I'll try to drop the gearbox or if I'll remove the engine to replace the ring. Might be faster to remove the engine since I did it at least once now, will provide the opportunity to check that a wire didn't get damaged somewhere either.
29th Oct 2023 5:53 pm
loanrangie
Member Since: 18 Jun 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 600
wynanddb wrote:
Seems timing was out by one tooth. Enough to prohibit it from starting? I don't know. Rectified the timing and will assemble everything again. Must say the positive stop does save a bit of time since you don't have to remove the starter.
1 tooth out wont stop it from starting, i did a friends timing belt/oil pump change and found whoever did the belts last did it wrong
.He said it always felt a bit sluggish previously but now goes really well.
31st Oct 2023 12:06 am
smarriott94
Member Since: 23 Oct 2023
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 3
if you watch one of LR Times new videos they had the same problem with fitting a non genuine crank sensor pick up ring / tigger wheel. but circuit error code would be sensor internal failure, connector not seated correctly or wiring fault. performance code is its not getting the expected signal like a faulty sensor or pick up ring or maybe the ring isn't seated in the correct place or even corrected wiring? hope that helps a bit
1st Nov 2023 8:10 pm
Kviasen
Member Since: 24 Dec 2020
Location: Norway
Posts: 107
Lr time
It looks like the tool Cristian had bought allowed for a lot of degrees movement.
I used the laser position tool and at least the car started and never has thrown a fault code.
But at closer look it seems that the locating hole on Veras D3 was to the left of the bolt center hole while on mine its to the right of the bolt center. But the common word is that the locating hole should be dead in the center og the bolt hole.
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