Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Engine rebuilt and fitted, but not able to start it
Hi everyone
My 2009 tdv6 after almost 370 000kms had a crankshaft failure in Feb this year, in all likelihood because of oil pressure drop because of an oil cooler failure.
In the months following I removed the engine (body on, in my driveway). I obtained a used Jaguar engine which had 1 seized piston, had a new sleeve fitted, had the heads done and then I reassembled, transferring the land rover specific parts from my old engine (basically everything except the block and heads). Also fitted a new oil pump, gaskets, head bolts, seals, timing belt with tension-er (I have the timing lock tools), HPFP belt and tensioner as well as the trigger wheel (also using the special tool to fit).
I didn't get any errors on the IIDTool (well engine related). I took a snapshot:
Click image to enlarge
It is almost as if it wants to start, I tried quick start as well which then gives it a couple of seconds running but dead after it.
I also connected one of my spare injectors, which does give a squirt, but I almost feel it should be squirting a lot more.
I can probably crank intermittently for about 10 minutes before the battery is flat (hmm, also wondering about that...)
I only get a couple of hours on Saturdays to look at it, so I have to make it count. I think next steps should be:
1. Double check that the fuel lines are tight, maybe bleed it again. - Try start
2. Recheck the timing (not looking forward to stripping everything off that far, but at least I can then also double check the camshaft sensor. - Try start
3. Maybe a battery check
4. replace trigger wheel with genuine one (got a britpart in there) and maybe new crankshaft sensor
or rather than 2 and 4 get my hands on a oscilloscope.
Any thoughts?
30th Aug 2023 2:16 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10367
They do take ages to get going after being apart. So I would ensure fuel is getting to the injectors first
30th Aug 2023 2:59 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Thanks Pete. I was wondering if I should connect that spare Injector on the one bank and the other. Should it be spraying continuously or a second or two between sprays?
30th Aug 2023 4:49 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10367
Not continuous.
Fuel is very high pressure so dangerous to work with.
30th Aug 2023 4:52 pm
HairyFool
Member Since: 04 Jan 2023
Location: Essex
Posts: 526
This is not a recommendation to do it but...
I did see this once in a workshop.
Punch a hole in the top of a metal lid of a glass jar so the injector is a tight fit. That way when the injector fires it sprays the fuel against the side of the jar keeping the fuel in the jar and you can see the spray pattern.A visitor from the dark side, my other vehicle is an MG5 EV
30th Aug 2023 6:41 pm
mek
Member Since: 18 Mar 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 468
Have you checked fuel pump relay/fuses?
1st Sep 2023 8:36 am
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
So I am sure both pumps (low and high pressure) is working since:
- I get fuel from the bleed valve when cranking
- Connecting a spare injector (both the pipe and actuating wire) gives spray during cranking
Starting to lean towards:
- cambelt timing (I checked twice before installing the engine), maybe I should check again, I can then verify the gap between the camshaft sensor and camshaft pulley
- crankshaft sensor/timing wheel - I have a spare used crankshaft sensor and a spare used timing wheel, current timing wheel is new, but Britpart. Will probably have to drop the gearbox and then replace timing wheel with new and new crankshaft sensor - OR - find an oscilloscope with 2 channels at least, my old one has on channel blown...
1st Sep 2023 1:04 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10367
You have engine speed on your graph and injector firing so I would expect crank sensor to be ok. Trigger wheel could have been incorrectly installed though.
1st Sep 2023 1:27 pm
Grumpydog
Member Since: 10 Apr 2019
Location: Medway/ Mos Eisley
Posts: 153
I struggled to start mine after changing the fuel filter. Bleeding at the bleed point did nothing. The only way I could get it started was to crack off the injector pipes and get someone to crank the engine. Not an ideal way due to the high pressures involved in the system but it was the only thing that worked.2004 Disco 3 HSE TDV6
2015 Audi Q5 S Line plus
2008 Audi A4 Avant S Line Black Edition. Gone
2005 Chrysler Grand Voyger. Gone
1st Sep 2023 1:27 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Thanks Grumpydog, I have done it this way as well, but maybe I should try it again.
Pete K I am worried about the installation, I did use the tool, but the tool has two pins (those that you turn with a small allan key), from the web it looked like the one under the "lip" is for the tdv6 and the other for the tdv8 - maybe I used the wrong pin, in which case the timing could be out by a bit...
1st Sep 2023 1:37 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
correction, I loosened, cranked it myself and tightened up - maybe I should ask SWAMBO to assist and do it again
1st Sep 2023 1:39 pm
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
Click image to enlarge
Cracked the 4 front injector pipes on the rail individually, cranked and tightened up yesterday evening.
Haven't won yet. did a couple of trends on the gap tool.
A bit rainy today to do much.
2nd Sep 2023 8:55 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10367
I think this guy tells you how to install the trigger wheel
Gets interesting at 14 mins looking at crank trigger wheel
?si=wpI8e7BX8-rPUU2C
?si=hHA9lqXoPtT8eY_5
2nd Sep 2023 10:23 am
wynanddb
Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 20
The videos are interesting, and I am definitely going to put an automotive oscilloscope on the list for tools that I would really like to have, there are some reasonably priced 8 channel ones that run from the PC laptop that looks like it could do the job. Until then, I will have to check manually, and what I can't check I might have to replace blindly, one such part might be the trigger wheel, really hope I don't have to go that far...
Click image to enlarge
Decided to verify the timing belt installation.
Only got as far as stripping this far today, still need to remove starter for access to put in the flex plate locking pin. - OR - make that positive stop I saw on one of the LRTime videos for the crank, during that video it seems that the flex plate has a slight bit of movement before tightening it, which makes me wonder if that might be where things went wrong, by using a positive stop on the crank I can be 100% sure, but it will stripping quite a bit on the turbo side of the engine to access the hole for the positive stop.
2nd Sep 2023 8:01 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10367
Air con compressor needs to come off I guess for the positive stop?
And that requires a 13mm UJ socket I think
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