Yes, I think the assumption of a basic filter in the tweeeter housing is probably correct: if the amp is feeding it a full-range signal, it must have some sort of high-pass network to stop it getting damaging low frequencies.
My concerns about the parameters of the OEM speakers are simply knowing the impedance and sensitivity of the original unit. Because the system is built specifically for the vehicle, the designers may (and I stress *may*) have used interesting tricks such as impedance matching the amp and speaker to get maximum system efficiency (for example, using a 2ohm driver on a matched amplifier). If you then replace the original driver with an 8ohm off-the-shelf unit from another manufacturer you are going to end up with a noticeable lack of level. Similarly, if the original unit has a high sensitivity (say 101dB 1W 1m) and you replace it with a higher power-handling but less sensitive 92dB driver, you are going to struggle to get enough output. But, as you say, replacing the amp could solve that.
I'm probably being over-cautious: make the substitution and try it out: it could be a night-and-day change. My advice would be: don't make any changes that you can't correct (e.g. cutting new holes in the door trim) until you are 100% happy with the result!
Guy,
I think you are being over cautious! The original drivers were 4 ohms - it had a big "4" on the back! As far as sensitivity, if the replacements are a few dB more sensitive, they will be louder than the standard ones at the same head unit volume.
If they are less sensitive, you will need to turn the volume a bit higher - worst case scenario is that it distorts before you get to a reasonable volume. Considering the ordinary speakers used in the base stereo, this is highly unlikely.
CaverD3 - have you taken a look at the standard tweeters yet? I am interested to hear how big the enclosure is. I am hoping they will take standard 1" tweeters - usually about a 40mm hole with 55mm flange. That would make it easier to install a Peerless Resolution 6 kit, or maybe a Focal 165 V2 two way.
Cheers,
Rob
PS. If you need a hand making the spacers out of MDF - send me a PM. I have all the gear!
16th Nov 2006 11:24 am
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
jonesy63
standard hole is 35mm.
see wiggs comments and hisgallery:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic6815-15.html
have you replaced the main speakers already?“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
16th Nov 2006 11:45 pm
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
Speaker install on hold till next week. I have been having problems with the FM reception. Poor reception, then sound disapears completely and comes back on again, when enterinf low signal spots. The other day I was listening to CD and sound went, display stayed on. It came back on with a loud static pop!
into dealers on monday for them to have a look. Didn't want to complicate matters by removing the OEM speakers.“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
There was a delay in delivering my D3 - it has gone from "End of October" (dealer words), to "You will be in it in November", to now 11/12.
I already have six Audax TM020* 4 ohm tweeters (with neodymium magnets) on the shelf - they will fit that space fine.
As far as the woofer goes... I wondering now if I should order the hi ICE door skins - so I can use a mid as well and make them 3 ways. This would allow a higher crossover point to the tiny tweeters. I will have to think about this a bit more.
Cheers,
Rob
17th Nov 2006 8:10 am
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
jonesy63
The normal skins have marking for the cut out of the mid range, it would be a matter of finding suitable grills that fit flush.
I am leasing the car so don't want to spend too much. I have tried loking for 3 way component, so I thought of putting i a 4 inch component and adusting the cossover to take out the bass. Then replacing the existing woofer with a feed from the amp.
I gave up because it was getting too expensive.
I'll just repace the existing mid range and tweeter with Blaupunkt Vc 172s
http://www.blaupunkt.com/sg/7606343000_main.asp
and see how it goes before replacing rears.“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
17th Nov 2006 8:46 am
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
Ok, I've replaced the front speakers with Blaupunkt Velocity VC 172 component speakers.
First removed old speakers;
Original tweeters really are cr... err, cheap:
The cross over consists of a capacitor:
First made an adaptor plate out of MDF:
This also brings the speaker forward away from the window slider.
Inserted speaker and checked fit:
I made my own cowling rather than cut out the original speakers, which would be an alternative. It was a matter of finding something the right size (145mm). I found the tops of two of these worked well:
Painted cowling black so will not be seen through grill and attached to the speaker with black caulking compound and placed foam rubber ring to cowling:
Placed foam coated deadening material behind speaker to stop standing wave:
I did not see the point of dynamat as the D3 is well made. Not made from old Milo tins!
Installed new speakers:
The tweeter was more of a problem as the new tweeter was too large for the space. It required some adjustment with a soldering iron and some plastic welding and caulk to hold the new one in place:
I placed the cross over behind the door panel:
Wired it up, replaced the door panels and fired it up.
Great improvement in sound quality, clean upper mid-range and the high frequencies are so much sharper. The bass is much clearer, the muddiness has gone.
The Velocities are obviously less efficient than the OEMs but not greatly. It just needs more volume but not a lot. Even when loudly playing MP3s through the aux in, there is still a lot of volume left and no distortion.
Ther is no need for an amp the head unit appears to have enough power to run these speakers. I will know for sure when the rears go in.
Now the rear speakers sound cr p
But thats a story for another day. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
I made a frame to hold it from aluminium angle and attached it to the cross bar under the seat. (will post some photos)
It is self pwered so does not take pwer from OEM head unit.
Head unit settings for bass back to neutral and great fill in bass.
The cross over point is too high so there is some diectional tones there, another under the passenger seat would solve that. (think I'll leave it for now)
I can now turn up the volume and have no distortion. Highly recomended. especially at this price, cheaper than an amp. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
30th Aug 2007 1:34 am
nwoods
Member Since: 04 Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 563
Very cool Caver.....what did you plug it into for signal, and how did you do it?
30th Aug 2007 2:28 am
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
It has both RCA and speaker inputs.
I connected it to the speaker outs and took power from the back of the centre cubby.
soldered wires to the back of the head unit, the remote signal wire I connected to the head unit 'V batt' wire.
I used the diags sent by Catweasel, wiggs and TFC. Many thanks guys. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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