Member Since: 28 Jun 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 84
Front CV Fail - Twice in 30 miles
Hi there, although I've been browsing the Disco3 forums for around a year now, this is the first time I've actually posted (Hi!), as for once the search function hasn't quite given me enough information. Hopefully the collective knowledge out there can advise me what's going on with my D3.
I'm going to break this down where possible, but it's quite a long story, with key details that may be of help...
Day 1 - Drove from Ipswich to Southampton to get the Ferry to Isle of Wight. About an hour from Southampton, something strange started happening with the steering. It would go loose for a split second, and the car would ever so slightly jump to the left, and then the steering would tighten up again, and return to normal. This was random, and would come about in groups, rather than all the time.
Pulling away at a roundabout, there was a clunking sound that I could not replicate, it only happened once. All was quiet after this.
Day 2 - Went down a country lane that quickly deteriorated into a washed away dirt track. I was not happy to progress, so I popped it into reverse and tried to back out. I didn't have very good traction, and the progress was minimal. Very quickly I got a message saying something like "Transmission overheated". I left the car to cool for 10 minutes, then tried again, and got the same message. There was a distinct quick clicking sound when the car was put into Park, but it would clear if went into drive, then back into park again.
I popped it into reverse again, drove forward slightly for run up, popped it into reverse, give it some gas, and then there was an almighty bang, and the passenger front side dropped.
Turned the engine off, and found that the tyre was completely flat.
A local farmer pulled me out and we found the front nearside drive shaft had fallen out at the hub / wheel end, and looks like it has punched a hole into the wheel, causing a complete blow out.
I changed the wheel, and the D3 was recovered to a local agricultural specialist who also does some vans and 4x4's.
Day 3 - He found the cv joint had failed, and replaced it, along with new boots. The car was test driven and all was well. Nearly £600 later we were back on the road in time to get the ferry home. I drove it on a variety of surfaces at anything from 0 - 60mph. It was given a good drive to the ferry with no problems.
We landed in Southampton and drove into town, I went into access height and crawled around a multistory to park. A few hours later we drove to the train station to pick up a friend.
As we approached the station, I turned left down a slight slope and heard a slight metallic whir, almost like two sets of splines rounding off on each other. At this point I lost ALL drive.
I coasted to a halt and was pushed into a parking space by some passers by.
Drive, and reverse were a no go. Engine would rev but there was only a slight rocking of movement and that was it. Park also clicked when I tried it, but was ok the second time I tried it.
I went straight to the front with my torch, and could see the drive shaft had dropped out of the wheel end, again!
9 hours later and we were home on the back of an AA truck.
The whole experience has really knocked my confident in Land Rovers. I do have a Series 3, but I expect that to be broken. For my D3 to fail, which is my lifeline when we are out and about, it has really not given me any confidence.
Before I get the local landy specialist to take a look and empty my bank account, I wonder if anyone here has any ideas quite what is going on? I'm even having thoughts of selling it and buying a Toyota!
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29th Nov 2014 6:27 pm
twoakers
Member Since: 15 Nov 2010
Location: Harwich
Posts: 367
Yes let us all know what the cause was and how you fixed it 8)Cheers, Dave in Essex
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29th Nov 2014 6:29 pm
Roob
Member Since: 28 Jun 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 84
Alan B - There is a bottle jack just out of shot also holding the car up. I don't trust the land rover jack, but my bottle was just a fraction too short to get the tyre off the ground . I was only changing the tyre at this point.
beanie - Yes, same side both times.
twoakers - Indeed I will. This is a really odd one, that I hope no one else has to deal with!
29th Nov 2014 7:31 pm
Russell
Member Since: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
Did they just fit a CV joint or a complete shaft? I would think that somthing may not have been repaired correctly and would be going back to the people who carried out first repair to talk to them.MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
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As Russell said, I'd be back saying, just what did you fit
What ever it was , it wasn't up to the job so I pressume it was a used driveshaft of unknown quality and condition, for what you paid, I'd want new Altox GSM FBH controller thread
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29th Nov 2014 8:11 pm
Valhalla
Member Since: 23 Oct 2011
Location: Isle of Skye
Posts: 124
First rule of diagnostics: Look at the last thing that was changed, and question whether it was done correctly.
Second rule of diagnostics: Why was the job done in the first place? What is wrong with the front diff or transmission or wheel location to cause the joint to go in the first place?
I feel very sorry for you that you have had so much trouble with your D3. As you say, you expect it on a Sers. Landrover, but not a modern Landrover. I think you have been unlucky with this, but the answer is going to be blindingly obvious to any mechanic worth his/her salt doing the repair job. Not least that they would spot straightaway if the driveshaft will not rotate when it should (incorrect transfer box drive-split) or if the wheel location to the driveshaft is wrong. Sadly for you, only the mechanic on the Isle of Wight is going to know if the CV gaiter was split for some time, or if the hub location was loose when the shaft was removed, amongst all the other things you would be looking-for as you forensically pulled the remains apart.....
29th Nov 2014 10:57 pm
Roob
Member Since: 28 Jun 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 84
Russel / beanie - They have fitted just a new CV + boot kit. The opinion of the garage was the shaft was OK to be repaired and reused. By repaired I think they pressed the circle cup thing back on the diff end of the shaft.
I have wondered if that was the wrong call to make, and if it's led to the second failure. As I'm more used to series axles and the comparative simplicity, I am struggling to get my head around what exactly was the failure point on this was. Although the repair was at the diff end of the shaft, the failure is at the hub / wheel end, as that where it has fallen out.
If I lived closer, I would go straight back to complain. However Ipswich to the Isle of Wight is a bit of a trek! I am documenting what I can with a view to calling the garage on Monday. I'm not confident I will get much back though, as they can't work on the vehicle to rectify the failed repair.
I'm currently trying to work out, if the second failure is the result of a bad repair / bad reused components. Or, if there is another fault causing the failure. I.e. There is a school of thought that the electrickery in the transmission is making a decision to force power to that wheel and killing the cv joint each time. Possibly supported by the "Transmission Overheated" message? Or something along those lines.
The head scratching continues...
29th Nov 2014 10:57 pm
Roob
Member Since: 28 Jun 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 84
Valhalla - I think you have hit the nail on the head there. While I trust the mechanic we used is good at what he does, I believe his expertise was in tractors rather than D3's, and perhaps something simple has been missed.
I am looking to see what some local landy specialists think before going ahead with any repairs, as this needs to be right first time round.
To say I am nervous of this happening again is an understatement. Thankfully both times this happened I was only do 5 - 10mph. I can only image what would happen if it dropped off at 70mph and caught the wheel, or worse, bounced off and hit the car behind.
There no clever electronics in the front diff, so no way to put all the power to one wheel.
I do think there is a fault with the mechanics of the shaft, a cv & boot isn't going to fix it, at the very least the force neede to punch a hole in the wheel will probably have done some damage and that's after whatever happened to cause the initial failure
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Last edited by beanie on 29th Nov 2014 11:33 pm. Edited 1 time in total
29th Nov 2014 11:04 pm
Roob
Member Since: 28 Jun 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 84
Normal off right height the whole time. The vehicle never grounded out, and all 4 wheels remained in contact with the ground. Low range was engaged. Terrain response was reluctant to engage mud and ruts setting.
At the time of the first failure, the wheels were turned a bit to the right, but not full lock. The front passenger wheel was extended a bit further than the others to reach the ground, but again nothing extreme. I gave it a couple of beans, but not the whole tin . The failure happened within a second of hitting the gas.
I'm confident in saying now that there was likely an underlying issue before the first failure, which is supported by the knocks at the round about and possibly the steering symptom. As you say, there may be damage from that first failure beyond what the original fault was, and this may have contributed to the second failure.
29th Nov 2014 11:25 pm
Russell
Member Since: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
So to get this right
The inner CV joint failed causing the outter one to come appart and punch a hole through the wheel? All they replaced was the inner CV joint and nothing else.
I would have thought that if the outter CV had come apart and punched a hole in the wheel it would have suffered some damage, also am a little worried that the inner failed and caused the outter to come apart.MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
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29th Nov 2014 11:30 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
All very odd and not seen anything like this.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
I could see the outter failing smashing the wheel and then the inner falling apart this would make more sense to me but I would still be looking at replacing the whole shaft.MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. I was only changing the tyre at this point.
. The failure happened within a second of hitting the gas.
