Member Since: 02 Jul 2014
Location: Sunny Devon
Posts: 1759
Hands Free safe or not ?
I have been watching the news on the M1 minibus crash , David Wagstaff the driver who went into the rear of the crashed minibus was on a hands free phone call .The police say that he had around 10 seconds to avoid the pile up but failed to slow or swerve and he hit the minibus at 56MPH
was the phone call partly to blame or not ?Land Rover 90 - deceased
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9th Mar 2018 3:03 pm
rrhool
Member Since: 28 Aug 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4398
According to the news (not always accurate I realise!) he was on a call for an hour before the crash.
On cruise, talking, not concentrating on driving. The phone was very much a contributory factor.Richard
D3 SE 2007. Triumph 2.5Pi 1973. Ferguson TEA20 1948.
Discovery 2 4.0 ES 2001- Gone
Discovery 1 300Tdi ES '95 - Gone
Range Rover Classic '79 - Gone
9th Mar 2018 3:33 pm
LaserTam
Member Since: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Essex
Posts: 828
You could argue - is there any difference from a hands free phone call and a conversation with a passenger in the car?MY2012 D4 HSE Nara Bronze with some extra stuff
9th Mar 2018 5:57 pm
NickJ
Member Since: 11 Oct 2010
Location: there's no f in point
Posts: 2137
For me personally, yes there is. If I've had a handsfree call then once I'm finished I'm surprised how much of the journey I couldn't recall. I don't Bluetooth my phones any more to the car so the call has to wait
9th Mar 2018 6:06 pm
comedyharvey
Member Since: 03 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
Agree entirely Nick, been on a call myself and when finished couldn’t clearly recall the journey so I too stopped using hands free. The trouble is you get drawn into the conversation.
The difference with a passenger is that they are there, they can see and sense what’s going on, will pause the conversation and the driver can more readily halt the conversation too.
So yeah, I think it likely that the hands free call did contribute to the accident.
.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
Discovery 3 HSE 2009
101" Fwd. Control 1976
Nuffield 10/90 Tractor (10/60 with 6 cylinder conversion) 1964
Previously;
Series III Lightweight. 1976.
9th Mar 2018 6:17 pm
KTM Gordo
Member Since: 18 Jul 2017
Location: St Neots
Posts: 109
From what I've read, the driver was distracted and not paying attention and that's what contributed to the collision.
However, there are lots of causes of distraction and in this case it does seem to have been the phone call - but adjusting the sat nav, changing music, adjusting the air con, drinking coffee, eating a Yorkie...
Go on, admit it - we all allow ourselves to be distracted from time to time.
See also driving whilst tired.Gordon
2016 D4 Landmark, Yulong White, SDV6, Ex-JLR Fleet
2013 D4 HSE (Gone! Sold within the forum)
9th Mar 2018 6:34 pm
mz mini
Member Since: 02 Jul 2014
Location: Sunny Devon
Posts: 1759
I would agree sat nav, radio , eating and drinking all distract and many more but you don't do any of these for an hour at a time unlike this chap who had between 9 and 12 seconds to take avoiding action yet did not
According to ROSPA a driver is 4 times more likely to have an accident whilst chatting on the phone
that's hands free or hand held
Land Rover 90 - deceased
Discovery 3 - deceased
Discovery 4 2013
Mini Cooper S 1964 Mk1 - International Rally winner red & white
Mini Cooper s 1964 Mk1 - Road Rally champion green & white
Mini Cooper S 1971 Mk3 - original and unrestored
Porsche 911 997
Porsche Boxster 3.4S
VW Polo 1.2
Citroen Xsara Picasso - shed/run around
For me personally, yes there is. If I've had a handsfree call then once I'm finished I'm surprised how much of the journey I couldn't recall. I don't Bluetooth my phones any more to the car so the call has to wait
Got to say I do agree.The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
They just make the best of everything they have.
9th Mar 2018 7:34 pm
Brian_DL13
Member Since: 25 Aug 2013
Location: Teesdale
Posts: 1418
It depends on the call.
Years ago I stopped making/taking customer calls on handsfree because it was simply to distracting.
OTOH a social call from the wife (say) is, IMHO, no different to talking to someone in the passenger seat.
9th Mar 2018 7:52 pm
rrhool
Member Since: 28 Aug 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4398
I think the difference is that, if you're talking to a passenger, they are to some extent aware of the traffic also, and if you stop talking they are aware you are concentrating. Someone on the other end of a phone, has no awareness of what's happening in the car, and will keep talking, even if you need to concentrate.Richard
D3 SE 2007. Triumph 2.5Pi 1973. Ferguson TEA20 1948.
Discovery 2 4.0 ES 2001- Gone
Discovery 1 300Tdi ES '95 - Gone
Range Rover Classic '79 - Gone
9th Mar 2018 7:58 pm
nearlee
Member Since: 15 Dec 2012
Location: where the sheep are scared
Posts: 1777
I've always said it's not the holding phone that's the problem it's the conversation.Just remember:-
Amateurs built the Ark
Professionals built the titanic
9th Mar 2018 8:30 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930
To me it's a combination of factors ...being on hands free doesn't in itself mean you can't look out of the windscreen but like any interaction in the cabin, it certainly contributed to inattention....how much is the question.
We can't see what he was presented with visually e.g. were brake lights of the stopped vehicles on or not ...if they weren't then his attention may not have been raised, more especially as there was a stream of traffic passing him in the middle lane just before the point of impact.
Cruise control IMO offers those seconds of false feedback where the reaction of the brain is stalled by the automation. I rarely use it for that reason.
The reduction to careless driving for him is correct AFAIC .....overall, we must not forget that had some drunken not fallen asleep in the carriageway then none of this would have happened. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Last edited by DG on 9th Mar 2018 9:13 pm. Edited 2 times in total
9th Mar 2018 8:30 pm
mz mini
Member Since: 02 Jul 2014
Location: Sunny Devon
Posts: 1759
Hi DG the minibus was stopped with hazard flashing and over 100 cars had passed by according to reports the hard shoulder and lane 2 were empty IIRC it was around 3am
cheers
Land Rover 90 - deceased
Discovery 3 - deceased
Discovery 4 2013
Mini Cooper S 1964 Mk1 - International Rally winner red & white
Mini Cooper s 1964 Mk1 - Road Rally champion green & white
Mini Cooper S 1971 Mk3 - original and unrestored
Porsche 911 997
Porsche Boxster 3.4S
VW Polo 1.2
Citroen Xsara Picasso - shed/run around
9th Mar 2018 8:47 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
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Member Since: 16 Sep 2015
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rrhool wrote:
I think the difference is that, if you're talking to a passenger, they are to some extent aware of the traffic also, and if you stop talking they are aware you are concentrating. Someone on the other end of a phone, has no awareness of what's happening in the car, and will keep talking, even if you need to concentrate.
The worst driving I have ever seen was two women in a car, the driver was waving her arms around. She mounted the pavement continued waving her arms and eventualy returned to the road without ever jnowing she had done so!
Todate I have seen this twice so any talking should be banned!Series 1 V8
Series 2 Hibrid V8
Discovery 3 HSE V8
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