Member Since: 13 May 2006
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Posts: 17
A happy ending
Hi guys/gals
Some of you may remember reading my post "A sorry tale" where I described how a con artist had ripped me off using a counterfeit bankers draft and driving licence to buy my old BMW 530d. The police did what they could with their stretched resources but warned me not to expect ever to see the vehicle again. Worst of all, my insurance policy has the usual clause stating that any loss caused by fraud or deception would not be covered. The car was worth £23,500!
So, I am delighted to tell you all that I received a check from my insurance company for £24,400 yesterday. How did this happen? I did receive some expert advice from a lawyer friend who works in a City firm specialising in insurance law. I used this advice to argue with my insurance company that I had taken every reasonable step to protect myself in this transaction and, by extension, to protect the insurance company themselves. My friend also told me to argue that the clause exists to protect the insurance company from fraudulent activity by the insured, not any 3rd party. To their very great credit, and to my obvious relief, they accepted the argument and then valued the car at £1,000 more than I had agreed to sell it for!
There are (at least) two morals to this story:
1) Never, ever, ever accept a banker's draft for payment for anything. A wire transfer may cost a few pounds extra but it is totally secure;
2) All insurance companies are not equal. You are not buying a commodity here. My company is called First Alternative and they really understand how to look after their customers. They have won a customer for life with me.
To finish off, I am also happy to tell you that my HSE continues to delight me on a daily basis. I have covered almost 10k miles in 4 months without anything going wrong. It is the most relaxing, comfortable car I have ever owned!
I would think that First Alternative will be getting a few calls off the back of this...
BTW, Great choice of colour - "Funny, mine doesn't do that......."
9th Sep 2006 9:48 am
cyclic
Member Since: 01 Apr 2006
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 33
What a relief that must be! I hate selling cars privately for that very reason and always take the part ex financial penalty because of it. I have had some very shady characters view cars in the past and always think they are surveying their next job!www.busyoutdoors.com
9th Sep 2006 9:49 am
DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
Thats great news - you must have been very relieved!
I'm with First Alternative too - got to say they were great the one time I needed them (only a scratched bumper). No hassle at all, and very prompt action. They were also the cheapest for me by a loooong margin.
Excellent - glad to hear the happy outcome. Perhaps for those who come across this thread and this forum in the future, you could post up the salient wording in your letter that had the required effect?Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
A wire transfer may cost a few pounds extra but it is totally secure
Hate to spoil this illusion, but it isn't completely correct. Someone can walk into a bank with a credit card and ask for an amount to be wire transfered from the card to your bank account. If the card is stolen, then the wire transfer can be reversed at a later date.
In a similar vein, a cheque can 'clear' after 7-10 days, and then can bounce up to six months later A counterfeit cheque can take a long time to be detected. Once found, the transaction is reversed.
Ask me how I know.......
9th Sep 2006 4:00 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Nikko
Glad you had a happy ending, a word to the wise thou about First Alt they are fine if your car is standard and you dont intend to go off road, the moment I mentioned I was using it off road they gave me a seven day letter and canx the policy (they did refund me)
9th Sep 2006 5:19 pm
retired
Member Since: 18 Feb 2006
Location: Surrey
Posts: 158
I believe this is a safe way to obtain payment for your car, or anything else for that matter.
Your purchaser arranges for a branch of his bank local to you to issue a bankers draft. You visit said bank together with your purchaser and witness the draft being issued. You now know its genuine and can pay it into your bank with confidence.
9th Sep 2006 5:30 pm
nikko
Member Since: 13 May 2006
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Posts: 17
Thanks for all the comments, guys.
I did all my negotiation with the insurance company over the phone. When they mentioned that my insurance was invalidated by their clause about theft by deception, I mentioned straight away (as I had been told to) that I had taken legal advice from my chum at the law firm and, of course, I dropped the name of the firm as they are the #1 insurance law specialist in the country. I mentioned that I had been advised that this clause can be argued to be there to protect the insurance company against fraudulent activity by the policy holder, not against the policy holder. I had also taken a number of steps (which in the end were totally useless) to protect myself. I insisted on seeing photo id with an address, and I withheld the log book after the crook filled out the transfer of ownership section telling him I would forward it once the draft cleared. My lawyer friend told me to take the insurance company through each precaution in detail to establish that I had not been reckless.
However, I have to say that the guy at First Alternative fairly swiftly came to the conclusion that they would pay out. After that, there was a massive delay because they would not issue the check without having the car's log book and that was off at the police labs for finger printing & dna tests (and they got the evidence they wanted). Finally, the police made a copy which I sent off and the cheque arrived 2 days later.
So, I can't recommend them highly enough, although I'm glad someone pointed out the restrictions on off-roading. I bought the D3 (a) because I live on a farm at the top of a hill reached by a quarter of a mile of unmade road; and (b) I have a wife, 2 kids and a dog and all the clobber that goes with them. If I ever do get properly offroad (and I would like to) then perhaps one can buy a specific policy for this?
Thanks, also, for the additional comments on how to safely accept payment. The number of scams that people pull are unbelievable.
Finally, there's a political point to be made here. I came to know and respect the local police here in Calne and they are as frustrated as I am that the police resources simply are not there to follow up this theft even though: (a) it's obviously an organised gang with a repeatable "business model"; and (b) they have CCTV pictures, fingerprints and dna. So, my car sits on a police database of stolen vehicles which will be next to useless as it's now most likely abroad. And they can't track down the individual because of lack of manpower. They will still receive a case of beer from me at xmas.
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Result! 
Thats great news - you must have been very relieved!
....to win over an insurance company is no mean feat. I would never a have thought it ...I'm eating my hat 
A counterfeit cheque can take a long time to be detected. Once found, the transaction is reversed.
