Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
PROFSR G wrote:
Have a look in my gallery there should be an image of the tool I made. If not I'll dig it out for you.
Is this it?
Click image to enlarge
whats happening the on the other side of the tool, i.e. the three bolts? did you do this while the cam belt was off, and locking pins out? what stops the cam shaft turning- or don't we need to worry about that?
You can guess what point I've got too now on the engine rebuild!
Also looking at various documents the tightening torque is 80nm + 90 degrees? does that sound right?2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
3rd Sep 2020 8:46 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
Yeah I had to knock this up as my LR tool has gone walk about and I couldn't obtain another quickly enough during lockdown.
The main cam belt was installed, as were the crank and cam locking tools. The bolts are M10, and on the other side of the tool I put an extra nut on each bolt which allows you to adjust and lock the length if necessary.
The holes were drilled from a template to exactly match the spokes of the sprocket, and the other end of the tool was made to bolt to the engine lifting bracket. Do not fit the pump belt at this stage, but when loosely assembled, turn the pulley so that the spokes are resting against the three bolts (observe the correct rotation orientation!) Once you start to tighten the bolt, the pulley will hold the shaft itself if the other locking pins are in place. (if you are concerned about movement you could add additional security by locking the shaft at the front sprocket with a torque bar for example!)
The original LR tool and it's guidelines is a bit of a kerfuffle to be honest, there is a splined socket and extension bar used from the pulley bolt to your torque wrench. You then have to measure the total combined length, and multiply by the specified torque. Then dance a Jig around the workshop whilst holding a live mouse in front of the ferile cat balanced on your head, and subject the whole lot to maths treatment before you arrive at an unspecified but calculated figure.
Since the rear of the cam is the same as the front, (except for a locking key) and the same bolt I apply 80 Nm and then just shy of 90 deg. Make sure you use a new LR bolt with thread lock, and also the sealant on the exh cam bearing caps where specified. Again, I was unable to obtain the Loctite product during lockdown, so I used Heldite flange sealant which has excellent heat and oil resistance properties. Watch carefully you place the bearing caps in their original positions and orientation!
Fit the tensioner and belt together, pull the pin and torque the tensioner and you're done.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Sep 2020 4:20 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Fantastic thanks,
Yea, everything you've said is exactly what I was worried about, putting undue stress on the cams, locking pins etc...
I have managed to get it to 80nm with a makeshift counter holding tool, but no way can I get the 90 degrees. This is with the old bolt too, so I'll go and get a new one tomorrow, and I've got some loctite on the way.
Interestingly its the 3.0l torque settings that mention 80nm and 90 degrees, but like you say the 2.7 manual you need to know the time of day, position of the moon relative to your current position, and if its raining etc.... what a faf. But it doesn't mention the 90 degrees.
I have a spare pulley (from the Jaaaag) that I can use to template up a better tool I guess.
I haven't touched the heads or cam seals etc.. (but do have some if I need too do it at a later date) have got new valve cover/inlet seals though.
Just taking a lot of time looking up all the various tourque settings, most seem to be 10nm or 23nm
In the meantime I'll carry on with assembling the rest of the engine. I just want it done now, miss not having a car! 2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
3rd Sep 2020 5:15 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
If you haven't touched the head/cam's why did you undo the rear pulley? You don't want to be going in there again, so if the pulley is already off I'd do the lot now and be done with it. Cam chains, tensioners, seals, the lot!
Remember, you will not be able to do it with the body on!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Sep 2020 5:26 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
I had too because the fuel pump and plastics are completely different. Its in two parts for a start,where as the Jaag one is one piece for different shape/layout pump
And guess whats in front of the plastic!
Remember, I've heard this running, and it's pretty quiet, so don't think they need doing. I wouldn't be surprised if they were already done when the previous owner rebuilt this engine.2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
3rd Sep 2020 6:09 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
Ah OK, in that case you might need to keep an eye on this thread.
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
So there's a question for you, should I bring across my camshaft and crankshaft position sensors, or are they the same?2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
3rd Sep 2020 6:54 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
There is no difference between the sensors for EU3 and EU4, so I can't imagine there is any difference on the Jag engine either. You could do a part number check to be certain.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Sep 2020 7:36 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
wallworkf1 wrote:
I have managed to get it to 80nm with a makeshift counter holding tool, but no way can I get the 90 degrees.
Interestingly its the 3.0l torque settings that mention 80nm and 90 degrees, but like you say the 2.7 manual you need to know the time of day, position of the moon relative to your current position, and if its raining etc.... what a faf. But it doesn't mention the 90 degrees.
I took the specs for the front sprocket and worked with that! You'll have to make up a tool to hold it there's no other way unfortunately. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate, I just used what I had lying around. It was a bit overkill to say the least
By the way, make sure all stretch bolts are renewed, cam, crank etc. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Sep 2020 8:02 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
I'll see what I can do!
I haven't had to undo any other stretch bolts, just this one. Tensioners etc... are all being changed, so have new bolts etc... Oil pump is good, all other gaskets have been replaced (was quite a parts list!) I'll put it all up here when I get chance and the engine is in.
I've also left the oil/fuel/cooler from the Jaaag (by the oil filter/water outlet) as it seems to be identical. (but have new gaskets for that if it needs moving accross)
Oh, and you'll be pleased to know I have renewed that one glowplug that requires the HPFP to come out 2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
4th Sep 2020 8:22 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
Did you say earlier you were changing the valve cover gaskets? I'm only asking as it's only a few more bolts to do the tensioners and chains. (Sorry, but I'm paranoid when it comes to these engines, and for good reason )
One other thing I did on my own engine was to block the exh gasses at the manifold (I used high tensile steel plate) to prevent them reaching the EGR's. I also cut the shafts from the EGR motors to the valves, as the motors were working perfectly. This took the load off the motors whilst still allowing the PCM to believe the EGR's were operating normally, and so no need to apply a software "patch".
For good measure, I removed the inlet manifold flaps and soaked the manifolds to get them spotless clean from all the years of EGR crud build up. If you do this step make sure you retrieve the locating supports which hold the brass rod on which the flaps operate, they just pop out which is why you need to recover them! I may have pics somewhere if you want them.
So you only removed the easiest glow plug then. And yes, you do need to get some pics up here, otherwise the forum rule is: "If no pics, it didn't happen" yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
4th Sep 2020 12:12 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Ha ha, great minds, I've been thinking about doing exactly the same to the EGRs as I too have cleaned off all the crud, including the inlets in the valve covers!
I also bought some EGR blank plates, but guessing these dont go the exhaust side?
Yes pictures will be incoming. I've been trying to have a big push to get the engine ready over the last few days.
I also have the Terrafirma TF470 hose kit? Which initially was just to do the big intercooler hose (mine split in the usual place at the top of the hose a year ago), so that got replaced at the time. But there were two more hoses in the kit, so I can put them on now.
However the small hose which I assumed was the one connecting the turbo to the metal intercooler, is way too big for it. So no idea where that goes?
In fact, it's so big (diameter), I can fit the old one precisely inside it!
I also got some exhaust wrap on the crossover pipe, as that was flaking and falling apart.
Click image to enlarge
2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
4th Sep 2020 5:15 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
No you're right the EGR blanks won't do for the manifold ports, but it's a quick job to make up a set yourself.
For years I have used the same steel found in the blade of a metal paint scraper, the type you'd find in any hardware shop. It can take the heat and will not warp! If you do blank them use a very thin smear of exh paste, and then a quality sealant to seal the EGR valves shut once you've cut the shafts.
This will prevent any future leaks from the coolers getting past the valves!
I have only ever fitted original hoses, so I can't help you on the Terrafirma stuff but I'm sure someone else will know.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
4th Sep 2020 5:38 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Been a bit rubbish with updates - got a lot on at the moment.
OK so - I've left the EGR's as they are for the moment, but fully prepared to blank them at a later date.
Reason being - in my mind, it's not what I would call a 'fair test' if I go modifying other things while putting all this back together and in the car. I want to know all the work done so far is OK, before I go doing any other modifications like EGR's - possibly de-cat etc.... Lets get it all back together and working as stock first - then I know any potential problems haven't been introduced by those/me.
That being said - it's going to be the first thing on my list as soon as it's all running OK.
So - I had a big day on Saturday, putting a load of the engine back together, changing the belts, making the counter hold tool, i'll share a picture of this, (its a bit cruder than yours PROFSR G - but did the job!) mounting the accessories back on, heat-shields, wiring etc... with the aim of potentially getting it back in the car near the end of the day if I was happy (in time for the old curry and beer!).
Got to about 4pm and I realised there was nothing else to do on the engine - so we decided to try and put it back in! Drag out the engine hoist, made up my chain exactly as it was when I lifted it out.
Getting it back in the car wasn't actually that bad at all, indeed it only took us around an hour and a half to actually get it in, lined up, and loosely bolted in place on both engine mounts and gear box, gearbox loom and breathers in the correct position.
We took the approach of getting the N/S engine mount in and lined up first, and pivoting on that while adjusting the height/angle of the gearbox, and engine until they were in-line and able to 'locate' - do up a few gearbox blots all the way around. Then reattaching the O/S engine mount to the block.
No first start just yet - I've still got a lot of work to do re-attaching everything that was undone.
I've got new filters all round (fuel, air, cabin, oil), new aux belt, gearbox fluid ready to top up what would have been lost in the radiator (will sort a flush out at some point soon I think), new coolant, PAS fluid (5lt to do a full replace). I've also got some front diff oil as I need to do the inner CV boot (N/S) too.
Interior has to go back together too....
I'll see what I can get done this Saturday!
Here's the only picture I have so far.
And Yea - I lost my fuel cap somewhere in the tidying up process a few weeks ago.
My modes of available transport keep reducing, as the fork seals on my main motorcycle now need sorting but need to sort the car out first so I have room in the garage to get the forks out. (I'm not going to do the fork seals - I really can't be bothered - they can be sent off!)
I've now only got one bike I can use out of all the vehicles currently populating my house - which I'm meant to be selling! (but fortunate that I can get around if I need too)
Jaaaag needs to go too.2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
10th Sep 2020 12:00 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4651
That's great progress, so the rest should hopefully be easy street!
When it comes to starting don't be tempted to stop if it doesn't fire up! It can take well over 30 secs continuous turning for these to get going, even when fully primed!!(unless something sounds wrong, or you hear a bang )
You're nearly there, best of luck! yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
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have got new valve cover/inlet seals though.
but need to sort the car out first so I have room in the garage to get the forks out. (I'm not going to do the fork seals - I really can't be bothered - they can be sent off!)
