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HS2 - not quite to plan
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RRSTDV8
 


Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
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HS2 - not quite to plan

It appears that HS2 is going to be at least 5 years late and is over budget by £20bn+ already.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49563549

Got love this quote: "Mr Cook said the delay had occurred because the original plans did not account for the effect of building through densely-populated areas with difficult geographical features." Wow, you don't say! Building through the heart of London with all its buildings and less-than-uniform ground conditions was going to be easy, was it? Who the heck was making up the original estimates and what has happened to them? Knighted and given a chuffing big pension, most likely.

I assume that this white elephant project will continue, not least because they've knocked a load of stuff down already and need to replace them with "something".

What a waste of money, when the country is crying out for investment in schools, hospitals, social housing etc. All so a few London bankers can get to Brum for a curry a few minutes earlier. Rolling Eyes
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Post #20805033rd Sep 2019 3:45 pm
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DSL
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Needs to be scrapped ASAP before any more good money is thrown after bad. Rolling Eyes
   
Post #20805113rd Sep 2019 3:58 pm
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Moo
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Re: HS2 - not quite to plan

RRSTDV8 wrote:
It appears that HS2 is going to be at least 5 years late and is over budget by £20bn+ already.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49563549

Got love this quote: "Mr Cook said the delay had occurred because the original plans did not account for the effect of building through densely-populated areas with difficult geographical features." Wow, you don't say! Building through the heart of London with all its buildings and less-than-uniform ground conditions was going to be easy, was it? Who the heck was making up the original estimates and what has happened to them? Knighted and given a chuffing big pension, most likely.

I assume that this white elephant project will continue, not least because they've knocked a load of stuff down already and need to replace them with "something".

What a waste of money, when the country is crying out for investment in schools, hospitals, social housing etc. All so a few London bankers can get to Brum for a curry a few minutes earlier. Rolling Eyes


Agree it needs rethinking but its about capacity as well as speed.
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Post #20805173rd Sep 2019 4:17 pm
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mzplcg
 


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It's not often I talk openly about my feelings towards HS2 but there seems to me to be a stack load of cash being spent on something which doesn't really solve the current problems of lack of capacity.

I will declare up front I am also against it because it's about to run 1/4 mile from my house which is not a pleasant thought. That said, I shall be retired (hopefully overseas) by the time a train runs.

However, capacity is needed, that much is known. Taking 10 minutes off a 1 hour journey is much more contentious. I personally feel that the money would be better spent adding more carriages to existing trains and, where necessary, extending platforms to cope with the extra train length.

There is also the small matter of companies like Virgin having 11 carriage trains where 5 of those are almost empty First Class carriages. This ought to be limited to perhaps 20% of carriages as a maximum.

I also take issue with the proposal that HS2 infrastructure would be given to the same bunch who do such a poor job of running the existing infrastructure. This makes no sense to me. There are so many examples of how Network Rail (formerly Railtrack) are incapable of managing the network effectively, safely and in a cost effective manner. I still recall Gerald Corbett standing like a rabbit in the headlights after Paddington, effectively a man who was talented in the retail space and who turned the dowdy stations into brighter places and more like shopping precincts, but with no real clue how a railway has to run. OK, he resigned, but 31 people lost their lives because of that debacle. and still HS2 would be handed over to this organisation with a very shady record.

With the sums of money being proposed, how many of the existing routes could be improved? How many of the old branch lines could be re-opened? How much more freight could be put on the rail system instead of the roads? I just see that this kind of money could be so much better spent.

Crossrail should serve as an example of how time and money always seem to run out of control on these projects. This should have gone out to tender for build and delivery to the government. As long as it's government money it seems running over budget and behind schedule are not just acceptable, but expected.
  
Post #20805223rd Sep 2019 4:48 pm
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Hoping it gets binned we already have them impacting on some water supply sites additional filtration plant going to be installed. Potential site might be lost long term as the ground work causes disruption to ground water. What with the increase in demand for water building additional housing just doesn't make sense. One site which thee is building and demolishment work happen very close to borehole creating Turbidty issues this is a smaller scale than HS2 will cause.
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Post #20805243rd Sep 2019 4:53 pm
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Navigator
 


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HS2 is not a new idea. In 1899 the Great Central Main Line was opened from Sheffield to London Marylebone. This was built to be a high speed line and part of it survives as a heritage railway.

The builders had a clever idea to allow it to carry slow traffic at the same time as fast. While it was basically a double track line, many stations were built with four tracks to allow fast trains to pass slower ones, which if the latter were passenger trains were stopping for passengers in any case.
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Post #20805303rd Sep 2019 5:22 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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Increasing capacity is the most important thing, surely, not shaving 10 minutes off a journey. Sure, lots of people travel to and from London on the train, but even more travel between other towns and cities by train too. And Govt wants us to reduce car emissions so how about opening up local lines that allow people to commute by train?
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!" 
 
Post #20805323rd Sep 2019 5:26 pm
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NoDo$h
 


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mzplcg wrote:


There is also the small matter of companies like Virgin having 11 carriage trains where 5 of those are almost empty First Class carriages. This ought to be limited to perhaps 20% of carriages as a maximum.


Which service is this on? The standard layout for an 11-coach pendolino is 3 1/3 carriages first class, 6 2/3rd Standard Class with the . On Super Voyager they're 10 coach, with 2/3rds of 1 carriage in each 5 carriage set laid out as first class

If you do it by seating capacity, the Pendolino has 151 First Class to 450 Standard Class, while the Voyager has 464 standard vs 80 first.

https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/experience/our-trains

A moot point once Virgin get kicked off and the new franchisee is installed.

In the last round of franchise renewals, all the winning bidders had reduced their first class capacity, even on lines where first was already packed solid for two hours 20 of a 3 hour journey.
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.  
Post #20805343rd Sep 2019 5:28 pm
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Washwipe
 


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Can’t see it being stopped, a lot of contracts have been handed out already so compensation will be costly, not as much as the costs if we carry on with it, there are a number of high profile offices in London and Birmingham set up with very expensive leases. A lot HS2 money will be Chinese, so don’t expect the rails to be of British steel, we were courting the Chinese when Cameron was at the helm.
  
Post #20805353rd Sep 2019 5:30 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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Why do commuter trains need to have first and second class carriages? Likewise the tables. Get 'em in, give everyone a seat and get them where they're going. Thumbs Up
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!" 
 
Post #20805443rd Sep 2019 5:48 pm
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DSL
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Just needs a few of these bad boys. Thumbs Up



Might need a few bridges modified. Whistle
   
Post #20805463rd Sep 2019 5:50 pm
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Scott #55
 


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Irrespective of your type of politics, it's well past time that all government contracts (Westminster, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast) were subject to a bit more scrutiny before being signed off. How many times do we hear that a project is daleayed, over-budget, over-complicated and so on? It never seems to be the contractor who suffers, but the British taxpayer.

There should be a mechanism for politicians to be held personally liable for poorly-executed contracts which, to all intents and purposes, stiff the taxpayer.

And while I'm up here on my high horse, I'm also fed up hearing about people and companies who abuse the tax system to avoid paying their 'fair share'. Censored . Those repsonsible for the apparent abuse of the system are those who draft and put into place ineffective or ill-thought-out legislation. Why on earth should anyone be surprised when a 'loophole' (i.e. mistake or oversight) is exploited? Those who sign the legislation off are at fault. They're paid enough - is it too much to expect that they do their jobs?
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Post #20805533rd Sep 2019 6:07 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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And there in lies the nub of the problem - the UK's railway system is basically a tarted-up Victorian one. Where those we (by "we" I mean politicians) aim to ape set about building modern railway systems from scratch, we have spent decades trying to avoid sensible investment in modernisation. I would guess that many people who are opposed to HS2 would be more in favour if it was actually a modern, high capacity, fast rail service serving lots of town on the way through.

Having HS2 run near your house likely devalues it. Having a commuting line nearby with a station to match? That's adding value. Whistle
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!" 
 
Post #20805543rd Sep 2019 6:08 pm
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NoDo$h
 


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RRSTDV8 wrote:
Why do commuter trains need to have first and second class carriages? Likewise the tables. Get 'em in, give everyone a seat and get them where they're going. Thumbs Up


SWR split their stock into commuter, mid and long distance at around 1hr, 2hr and >2hr journeys. Their sub 1-hour stock has no first class, while you get "some" on the mid-distance routes and just a little under 1 carriage (it's just a little over 1/3rd of a carriage per 5-car set) on the 10-car long distance rolling stock.

A lot undertaking the >2hr journeys are commuting in some sense, but usually only make the one round trip a week (usually Monday up, Thursday back) and stay in London for three nights. It's also a common pattern of weekly travel on GWR on the Wales-Paddington route and other longer distance routes.
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.  
Post #20805573rd Sep 2019 6:13 pm
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Disco_Mikey
 


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Scott # wrote:
I'm also fed up hearing about people and companies who abuse the tax system to avoid paying their 'fair share'. Censored . Those repsonsible for the apparent abuse of the system are those who draft and put into place ineffective or ill-thought-out legislation. Why on earth should anyone be surprised when a 'loophole' (i.e. mistake or oversight) is exploited? Those who sign the legislation off are at fault. They're paid enough - is it too much to expect that they do their jobs?


They are the people running the country. All self serving Censored who are only looking out for No 1
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Post #20805593rd Sep 2019 6:19 pm
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