Carrs jaguar Land Rover, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 9LD, UK
Registered in England 703021
From: ******* [mailto:******@carrslandrover.co.uk]
Sent: 21 November 2017 08:14
To: '*******@blueyonder.co.uk'
Subject: Warranty/Extended Warranty
Hi Mr Brooks,
As discussed I’d like to put your mind at ease regarding the warranty on your vehicle covering a crank failure. If your car suffers from a crank failure while under manufacturers warranty or Landrover extended warranty this will be covered! As it’s a major engine component the retailer will most likely want to see service history just to make sure the car has been serviced as per the manufacturers specification and has the correct oil in it, this is normal with internal engine faults as they can be impacted by not being maintained properly or having the incorrect oil in them. Providing the car is serviced properly there should be no issues.
You may find with certain repairs that the extended warranty team advise the retailer that they need to approach Landrover for the repair to be covered due to there being a bulletin from Landrover published or something along those lines but either way this kind of repair will be covered.
I hope that makes sense.
Kind Regards
Wayne Presland
Service Manager, Carrs Jaguar Land Rover
Carrs jaguar Land Rover, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 9LD, UK
Registered in England 703021...........One life live it..........
Last edited by Brooksie69 on 10th Apr 2018 8:28 am. Edited 2 times in total
9th Apr 2018 8:04 pm
Redline
Member Since: 20 Jan 2018
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 141
JLR will continue to bat away individual claims because they feel no one individual can hurt them. That’s the way big business works on consumer issues.
Claiming a known design defect would make the item unfit for purpose unless they accepted liability for repairing it. I don’t see them doing that.
The fact that the part cannot be inspected allows them to blame incorrect maintenance which makes it all but impossible to prove it’s the part at fault. Ive read that they won’t accept independent metallurgical reports.
Eventually they may end up with a dam burst of claims - especially if someone gets killed or seriously injured as a result of a problem they already know about. Arguing in a coroners court is something they won’t want to do. That turns it into a safety related failure.
Ideally, the motoring press is best placed to expose any issue if it really is more than one or two isolated incidents, but, they won’t because they get bright shiny expensive new cars to test every few weeks. That’s what sells magazines.
JLRs stance, if that’s what it is, is entirely due to maintaining profit by keeping costs down. The costs could be huge if it really is proven to be a serious design or production issue. Imagine the costs of a recall on the crank!
Only getting information on the rates of failure on cars that have been properly maintained where JLR have replaced the engine to show the part is susceptible to failure at any age will get any progress. That is, it doesn’t matter what you do, there is a much greater chance than is expected or reasonable it’s going to break. Cranks are designed to take huge forces - it’s their role. Am sure occasionally they do break, but, I’ve never heard of one under any circumstances. It’s always something else that broke first. Could missing a service by a few miles cause it? Unlikely. I’d like to see the distribution curve of % failures against service periods to form a judgement - the data won’t lie. Data you won’t get to see if there is a problem and data they’d fall over themselves to give you if there isn’t.
It looks like JLR and/or dealers are a little sensitive over it. The number of reports of claims being knocked back entirely due to what’s in the service log. It’s black and white which is unusual on such a catastrophic and expensive failure. Little seemingly in the way of sharing the costs on a goodwill basis even. That tells me something.
To have what appears to be more crank failures than timing belt failures is worrisome. To have to consider it, even if you know you have no reason to isn’t something I expected to have to do.
That said, taking such a hard line with their greatest advocates (us!) I’m sure won’t help them in the long run.
I hope JLR are not playing Russian roulette on the issue - Keep spinning the chamber and hoping the next one doesn’t have a round loaded. Someone might just chamber one for them.
If mine breaks it’s not something I’ll quietly drop considering the amount of noise that’s being generated over it.
Alternatively, change allegiance to another manufacturer. ASAP. Potentially have to choose to pay for some university education for my sons or a new engine. No contest. JLR just lost.Current : Discovery 4 HSE (2012 spec)
Current : BMW Z4 20i MSport
Current : BWM Z4 3.0SI Sport Auto
Previous : Freelander 2 HSE
9th Apr 2018 9:05 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
Brooksie69 wrote:
My concerns were answered in this email from the dealer I bought my car from:
Hi Mr Brooks,
I sent the details of our conversation to the address you gave me on the phone – see below. I hope this helps put your mind at ease.
Kind Regards
Wayne Presland
Service Manager, Carrs Jaguar Land Rover
Carrs jaguar Land Rover, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 9LD, UK
Registered in England 703021
From: Wayne Presland [mailto:*****@carrslandrover.co.uk]
Sent: 21 November 2017 08:14
To: '*****@blueyonder.co.uk'
Subject: Warranty/Extended Warranty
Hi Mr Brooks,
As discussed I’d like to put your mind at ease regarding the warranty on your vehicle covering a crank failure. If your car suffers from a crank failure while under manufacturers warranty or Landrover extended warranty this will be covered! As it’s a major engine component the retailer will most likely want to see service history just to make sure the car has been serviced as per the manufacturers specification and has the correct oil in it, this is normal with internal engine faults as they can be impacted by not being maintained properly or having the incorrect oil in them. Providing the car is serviced properly there should be no issues.
You may find with certain repairs that the extended warranty team advise the retailer that they need to approach Landrover for the repair to be covered due to there being a bulletin from Landrover published or something along those lines but either way this kind of repair will be covered.
I hope that makes sense.
Kind Regards
Wayne Presland
Service Manager, Carrs Jaguar Land Rover
Carrs jaguar Land Rover, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 9LD, UK
Registered in England 703021
Never, ever, let facts get in the way of a good internet gossip, rumour and speculation!
PS: You might want to obscure those email addresses in your post (as above) before the spambots find them 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
10th Apr 2018 6:07 am
Robert SausageTrousers
Member Since: 09 Aug 2015
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 466
I dealt with Wayne Presland at Carrs Landrover when the crank snapped on my last Disco. He was very helpful but as I had bought the car from an non-authorised dealer his hands were tied, I was however told categorically that in the unlikely event of the crank going on my new (second hand) car I was buying from them then it would definitely be covered by the approved used warranty.
10th Apr 2018 8:10 am
mz mini
Member Since: 02 Jul 2014
Location: Sunny Devon
Posts: 1759
I phoned Approved Land Rover Warranty this morning which is Car Care warranties got put through to the Land Rover team and ask if Car Care would accept a crankshaft snapping on a Disco 4 claim
to be told that Car Care WILL reject any crankshaft failure as its is a listed inherent fault on this engine
quote we at Car Care exclude a snapped crankshaft on a Land Rover Discover 4 as its a known issue
when we reject it we send you back to Land Rover to battle it out with JLR and the dealer Land Rover 90 - deceased
Discovery 3 - deceased
Discovery 4 2013
Mini Cooper S 1964 Mk1 - International Rally winner red & white
Mini Cooper s 1964 Mk1 - Road Rally champion green & white
Mini Cooper S 1971 Mk3 - original and unrestored
Porsche 911 997
Porsche Boxster 3.4S
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10th Apr 2018 9:13 am
ratrunner
Member Since: 20 Nov 2015
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 194
Popped into my local LR independent today to get work done on my other car, not LR he had a D4 sat waiting for an engine as crank had gone bang at 44,000.Waiting time for engine 4 weeks even then subject to availability.He also had another customer who also had the crank go bang and he had to tell him he could not give a date as to when he could get an engine for him.He had to go elsewhere. Again warranty refused to pay. This surly is wrong just when will LR admit there is a problem.
10th Apr 2018 2:11 pm
Brooksie69
Member Since: 09 Jun 2014
Location: Wigan
Posts: 168
They will not as unlike America where a class action would have been filed on behalf of all those who have a faulty or a know issue crank snap.
I would use every trick in the book to hold them accountable including the law to make sure they sort it.
I got an email from the service manager stating it’s covered so that would be my start.
It’s unbelievable a manufacturer stating a snapped crank is a know issue..... UK it can only happen in the UK...........One life live it..........
10th Apr 2018 2:19 pm
Redline
Member Since: 20 Jan 2018
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 141
Has anyone asked what is a non-authorised dealer (as mentioned above). That sounds like JLR are running a cartel.
Are they suggesting you can only buy from a LR franchise to have your warranty honoured? That sounds like restriction of trade - and something that I thought the EU had banned in the motor trade.Current : Discovery 4 HSE (2012 spec)
Current : BMW Z4 20i MSport
Current : BWM Z4 3.0SI Sport Auto
Previous : Freelander 2 HSE
10th Apr 2018 2:45 pm
mz mini
Member Since: 02 Jul 2014
Location: Sunny Devon
Posts: 1759
That is exactly what Car Care had said no full main dealer service history no JLR contribution what so ever ,I remarked that this is contrary the current EU law to which Car Care agreed Land Rover 90 - deceased
Discovery 3 - deceased
Discovery 4 2013
Mini Cooper S 1964 Mk1 - International Rally winner red & white
Mini Cooper s 1964 Mk1 - Road Rally champion green & white
Mini Cooper S 1971 Mk3 - original and unrestored
Porsche 911 997
Porsche Boxster 3.4S
VW Polo 1.2
Citroen Xsara Picasso - shed/run around
10th Apr 2018 2:54 pm
Erea
Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: Munster
Posts: 1509
Is this going to turn out like the tow bar recall?
When I came on this site first people were complaining that Landrover were saying there was nothing wrong with the removable tow bar but they eventually put their hands up and had to do a recall.
If they can’t provide a warranty on second hand cars then this will come to a head fairly soon as It will be a PR disaster if the media run with this story. I’m guessing they will have to at the very least start repairing cars with a full service history.
Does anyone know for definite what is causing them to snap. Is it a faulty shaft or is it the shells spinning cutting off the oil and the shaft then getting hot and snapping. Is there any possible solution to prevent it or is it a case of waiting for the snap and then replacing the engine.
10th Apr 2018 4:36 pm
mz mini
Member Since: 02 Jul 2014
Location: Sunny Devon
Posts: 1759
I think that the shells do not have locating tabs so as you rightly suggest they can spin and cut oil feed to the crank and the rest is history Land Rover 90 - deceased
Discovery 3 - deceased
Discovery 4 2013
Mini Cooper S 1964 Mk1 - International Rally winner red & white
Mini Cooper s 1964 Mk1 - Road Rally champion green & white
Mini Cooper S 1971 Mk3 - original and unrestored
Porsche 911 997
Porsche Boxster 3.4S
VW Polo 1.2
Citroen Xsara Picasso - shed/run around
10th Apr 2018 5:07 pm
Dusty
Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1022
Are then any figures (even vague) as to what percentage of D4’s this has happened to?
Also as it stands are Warranty Direct covering this catastrophic failure? Even if they are at the moment I wouldn’t be surprised if they play their get out of jail card soon!!
I’d all but decided to go with their 3 year warranty in June, not bad value for D4’s just out of manufacturers warranty. But threads like this just make me think of jumping ship whilst the goings good Discovery 4 HSE
SDV6
2015
10th Apr 2018 5:58 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713
mz mini wrote:
I think that the shells do not have locating tabs so as you rightly suggest they can spin and cut oil feed to the crank and the rest is history
Member Since: 02 Jul 2014
Location: Sunny Devon
Posts: 1759
Woops 4.4 for me if I go down Range Rover route as Woody 32 suggested Land Rover 90 - deceased
Discovery 3 - deceased
Discovery 4 2013
Mini Cooper S 1964 Mk1 - International Rally winner red & white
Mini Cooper s 1964 Mk1 - Road Rally champion green & white
Mini Cooper S 1971 Mk3 - original and unrestored
Porsche 911 997
Porsche Boxster 3.4S
VW Polo 1.2
Citroen Xsara Picasso - shed/run around
10th Apr 2018 6:19 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
You know you want to! 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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