Member Since: 15 Feb 2006
Location: The Magic Roundabout
Posts: 1392
Just too darn complex ?
Is it just me or does anybody else feel that manufacturers are taking it just too far with the complexity of their cars these days ??
I think it’s ridiculous that a vehicle such as a Discovery needs “Software Updates†that’s the sort of thing jet fighters & space shuttles need. The cars today are wired with fibre optic cabling or data bus systems, they have computers & ECU’s to control everything from lights to climate control. Reading though the catalogue of problems on this forum that owners are having with their cars, it’s not as if this technology has enhanced reliability, if anything I’d say it has reduced reliability.
When you think about it, it seems to be pretty much all electronic problems ! Suspension system failure due to sensors, electric handbrake warning messages etc, limited gears, washer fuse, the list goes on. I don’t think I’ve read of an engine failure or someone having a broken drive shaft or some other such “mechanical†failure, all seems electrical, with software fixes as the solution.
I had a truly lovely ‘97 300TDi XS, which I kept for almost five years, without a hitch, no software updates required ! The only time it spent at the dealer was for regular servicing. I really feel things are just over complicated today.
Driving my ’97 Disco, if I wanted to turn on my wipers, I could select variable intermittent or “onâ€, none of this “rain sensor†rubbish. The “climate control†consisted of two temperature rotary controls, along with fan speed & direction control. So all you needed to do was set the temp etc & away you go. I find now that I’m constantly fiddling with the CC in my Disco 3. On a long journey I’m always having adjust the temp up or down, as it seems to fluctuate all the time.
Now it’s not only the Disco that suffers from this over complexity, virtually every car these days has this sort of nonsense in them now. Is it all really necessary or is it actually making driving any better ?
Now perhaps I’m just being a “grumpy old man†but I do believe that they had vehicle technology just about right between 1998 & 2000ish & really they should just have left them alone at that. We have a ’02 TD5 here which I drive every so often & it’s just such a pleasure. Normal heater, normal wipers & normal wiring so that if you were to add a phone kit, the electrics won’t have a nervous breakdown, just so, so simple. I’ve even heard that to fit a set of driving lamps to the D3 you have to “tell†the computers that they are there & allow them to be switched on.
Hello ! Is this madness or what ?
You know, if I were to be totally honest, I prefer driving the TD5 to my Disco 3 any day. I’m sorry that I waited for the D3 at all, I think I would have preferred to have got one of the last “Normal†TD5’s They even look nicer, but that’s a whole other discussion, best left to another thread.
Sorry for the rant guys, but does anyone else share my views, or should I just quietly go back into the cave I came out of ?
23rd Feb 2006 5:29 pm
simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
Been running mine for over a year and no major issues at all... the software updates just enhance or fix bugs... none have been show stoppers for me nor many owners. Mostly they re-calibrate sensor settings (such as with the climate control to make them more efficient) etc.
You will see a skewed view on a forum like this as good news and no problems to report just, well, go un-reported
Bad news and issues however are aired and discussed and this makes it appear like their are major problems.
D3 would not have won over 40 awards world wide if it was all bad either.
23rd Feb 2006 6:04 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Just to back up what Simon says about 'all bad stuff' on the forums, the D3 is the 2nd 'electrically complex' vehicle I've had where there has been a specific forum for it and the previous one was just as rife with 'issues' as this.Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
23rd Feb 2006 8:13 pm
simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
Nature of forums I'm afraid... along with some cheeky banter of course and the odd squabble
-s
23rd Feb 2006 8:16 pm
zebadee
Member Since: 15 Feb 2006
Location: The Magic Roundabout
Posts: 1392
I’m not really complaining about the D3 or LR in particular. In fact mine has been running trouble free for almost a year too, except for the sinking seat.
The point I’m making is that I think all manufacturers have lost the run of themselves with the unnecessary complexity they are building into their vehicles today. Back in the days of the 300TDi’s & TD5’s things were just fine. I can’t see why all these electronics are needed in cars. They don’t make the driving experience any better. As I said in my first post, you’re all the time fiddling with the likes of the climate control to get it right. Whereas with regular heating controls you set you heat selection & that was that. There was no system in there constantly changing it’s setting to maintain temperature. If you were cold you up’d the setting & if too hot you lowered the setting that was that. You want heat you got it, not this ever changing system. It’s not just the D3 I’ve found this in, I’ve yet to find a “climate control†that can do what the traditional system did.
Then we those darn rain sensing wipers, I just hate those. I had them on a previous vehicle (non LR) & they drove me nuts. What was so wrong with the traditional intermittent, on or off ?? In fact I almost didn’t go for the “SE†when I read the spec included R.S. wipers, but I thought I’d try them again.
Maybe it’s just me & I’m getting old. But I really think all these gadgets are more trouble than they are worth & don’t do anything to enhance the drive.
Just my opinion anyway, for what it’s worth………
24th Feb 2006 12:00 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
Thats exactly why I indulge myself in Classic Cars I have my 2a for the real back to basics stuff, and my MG for the good old days when everything was connected (usually) to everything else with steel and you could rewire the darned thing in a day.
But for everyday use, the D3 more than satisfies me.
24th Feb 2006 12:05 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
...has some merit - SWMBO's mighty Matiz NEVER goes wrong!Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
24th Feb 2006 12:06 am
steveho
Member Since: 07 Jan 2006
Location: lincoln
Posts: 74
It's progress,in ten years or so the internal combustion engine be will finished and everything will be electric-time moves on
...in your distributor cap?Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
25th Feb 2006 12:32 am
bkehoe
Member Since: 25 Feb 2006
Location: Wexford
Posts: 1481
Re: Just too darn complex ?
zebadee wrote:
You know, if I were to be totally honest, I prefer driving the TD5 to my Disco 3 any day. I’m sorry that I waited for the D3 at all, I think I would have preferred to have got one of the last “Normal†TD5’s They even look nicer, but that’s a whole other discussion, best left to another thread.
Ah yes! and when did you last set yer tappets and balance yer carbies?
25th Feb 2006 1:21 am
lee01277
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Shed
Posts: 821
Ever have a Spitfire .................Somewhere in-between my old D3 and what's to come next .........
25th Feb 2006 10:37 am
simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
You mean one of these ???
Boy would I love one of these things to play in
25th Feb 2006 10:50 am
lee01277
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Shed
Posts: 821
I wish ..
Nope, the 4 wheeled rag top sort, that comes apart with about half a dozen nuts and bolts..
Wish I had taken some photo's , but back then I'd rather spend the £ on beer rather than pics ..
And balancing the carbs was as complicated as using a mesuring stick, and a bit of greese for the connecting rod ................Somewhere in-between my old D3 and what's to come next .........
25th Feb 2006 3:05 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
I had a Spitfire, a 1971 Valencia blue Mk3. It was good until it fell to bits.
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| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) 
I have my 2a for the real back to basics stuff, and my MG for the good old days when everything was connected (usually) to everything else with steel and you could rewire the darned thing in a day.
