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Lost for Words
 


Member Since: 03 Sep 2013
Location: Warminster, Wiltshire
Posts: 6703

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

If you're going to flash the BCM you really should use a power supply or another car. Loosen fusible links 15 & 16 in the Battery Junction Box and in the event it fails, pull them out quickly. Thumbs Up
 Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off Sad )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped Very Happy
Several Discovery 300 TDis
 
 
Post #142805217th Feb 2015 10:15 am
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Sly666
 


Member Since: 15 Dec 2014
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 457

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Fuji WhiteDiscovery 4

Lol.
Yes i have fat fingers. But find a bic pen lid to be an excellent stylus. Thumbs Up
  
Post #142806817th Feb 2015 11:05 am
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harrythespider
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2008
Location: cumbria
Posts: 277

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

LfL what does pulling them out quickly do?
  
Post #142840117th Feb 2015 9:37 pm
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 17853

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

If it fails, it keeps the rear lower tailgate actuators on, and will burn them out.

Pulling the fuses out cuts power to them Thumbs Up
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Post #142841217th Feb 2015 9:44 pm
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Robbie
 


Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17852

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 4

It can toast the door locks too.
 Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948

Battery & Quiescent Current Drain Testing

Diagnostics for:
Defender, FL2, D3, D4, Evoque, RRS & FFRR
A not-for-profit enterprise


 
 
Post #142841517th Feb 2015 9:45 pm
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harrythespider
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2008
Location: cumbria
Posts: 277

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Shocked That's not good. Thanks for the advice both.
  
Post #142846917th Feb 2015 10:26 pm
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BBS SPY
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Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3053

Cyprus 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Quote:
will burn them out


Quote:
can toast the door locks too


Could I possibly ask you to detail your own personal experiences of this.

I ask this because as very many know, BBS has for very quite a substantial and significant number of years now been producing diagnostic equipment in the form of the MSV-2 and now also the Nanocom Evolution that has been capable of flashing the BCU/CJB, and despite some having flashing failures when flashing the BCU / CJB, not one has ever reported burning their tailgate or door locks out.
  
Post #143012820th Feb 2015 7:50 pm
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Robbie
 


Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17852

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 4

Seen it twice on MSV2 and once on SDD. First time on MSV2 we didn't realise what was happening and it got expensive. On the other occasions managed to remove power or fuses. Not had a problem yet on IIDTool when following the precautions and recovery methods Gap lists in their manual.

You need to get out more Colin.

Thumbs Up
 Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948

Battery & Quiescent Current Drain Testing

Diagnostics for:
Defender, FL2, D3, D4, Evoque, RRS & FFRR
A not-for-profit enterprise


 
 
Post #143013620th Feb 2015 8:00 pm
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 17853

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

Had exactly that, with a failed CJB update on an 06 car, using the MSV2

New CJB, new engine ECU and new lock set were required to get the car running again. In addition, both lower tailgate latches wouldn't work afterwards...

That was the last time I used the MSV...
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Post #143017620th Feb 2015 8:46 pm
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Robbie
 


Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17852

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 4

Ouch, the ECUs, locks and the tailgate!

Anyway just to help Colin with his amnesia / missing time / alien abduction:

http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic106210-15.html

http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic107553.html

Quote:
...was once regarded as impossible to modify a vehicles settings until I personally introduced the acronym and term CCF, provided the capability to edit it and all the power and capability it now represents...


It still makes me chuckle, even now. Although the 'bad byte or sector in the Flash memory' stuff from BBS took all the humour out of the topic as we entered the twilight zone….

Rolling Eyes
 Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948

Battery & Quiescent Current Drain Testing

Diagnostics for:
Defender, FL2, D3, D4, Evoque, RRS & FFRR
A not-for-profit enterprise


 
 
Post #143020120th Feb 2015 9:25 pm
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harrythespider
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2008
Location: cumbria
Posts: 277

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

I'm even more confused than I was before. I have read numerous posts regarding flashing and the problems encountered, using a myriad of different make tools and I cannot understand how removing fuses 15 and 16 from the battery fuse box (heated front screen and heated door mirror) can affect rear lower tailgate motors, door locks and other equipment covered by other fuses. Likewise removal of headlamp connectors to effect a solution. The overlaying theme to most of the posts appears at all times of flashing, to ensure a continuous and uninterrupted power supply of 25A. So are the instances of 'burnout' down to failure to have said power supply?
Obviously I am rather reluctant to flash anything until I have an adequate power supply.
I understand CTEK have such a charger, Sealey do a BCSU25 which appears to push out 25A, but is less money.
  
Post #143055721st Feb 2015 4:38 pm
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harrythespider
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2008
Location: cumbria
Posts: 277

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

should be Sealey BSCU25.
  
Post #143056321st Feb 2015 4:53 pm
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 17853

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

When the BCM has a failed refresh, it keeps a number of the outputs "active" and they are permanently on. This can be seen visually if it decides to keep the headlight/main beam on.
In the case of the latches, they are fed with a constant feed, and as such burns out the electrical motor inside the latch

By removing the fuses listed, it cuts power to the required parts of the BCM, so even if it does fail, the fuses can be quickly removed, and power cut before any damage is done Thumbs Up
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Post #143057521st Feb 2015 5:08 pm
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harrythespider
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2008
Location: cumbria
Posts: 277

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

So the fuses are unwittingly 'dual purpose' serving both the intended parts plus the BCM. I think I read that a flash could be done with fuse 15 or 16 removed, if that's true, why, as a precaution, the fuse isn't removed prior to reflash, thus avoiding the possibility of a 'burnout'.
On an aside, I have been told that the 'cheap' keyfobs on fleabay can be programmed if the horn is disconnected, is this another oddity of the D3 canbus or likely to be untrue.
  
Post #143064721st Feb 2015 7:21 pm
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Flack
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Member Since: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Preston Lancashire
Posts: 5325

England 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 XS Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Can I just add my input that having flashed hundreds of BCU,s with quite a few diagnostics kits over the years, I have only had one BCU fail on me.
This was long before LR decided to release the TSB about how to recover from a failed flash on a BCU. Had I known about this procedure then, I would have been able to recover from it, it turns out the car ended up at the dealers and they actually got on to LR who informed them about the TSB and they did the TSB to recover the car.

Its not the tool that causes the Issue as LR use there own diagnostic kit and they have had this happen to them as well hence the TSB, its just the luck of the draw, but at least we all are now more aware of the problem.

You could say this about BT modules as I have had quite a few of them fail when being flashed,these are not recoverble, but its not the tool that causes the issue.

I now warn customers about flashing these Ecu's, if it does not need flashing then leave well alone.

There seem's to be some scare mongering about, if you follow the manual and talk to the customer about the risk, and most importantly make sure you have a good power supply on before flashing any Ecu's, there is not a lot more you can do to minimise the risk of a failed flash, you have to except that when your carrying out these procedures you are taking a risk.


All my diagnostic tools now have built in safeguards to try to prevent this from happening so hopefully we don't see this again.


Flack Thumbs Up
 
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Post #143066921st Feb 2015 8:08 pm
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