I was at my local LR Specialist this week (when they bought my 300TDi), and I asked (tongue-in-cheek) if they could look after a D3. The response was quite surprising.....
They said they had full Autologic capabilities and that they could do everything that a franchised dealer could except warranty work.
In fact, they told me that they had quite a number of D3 customers and that there was nothing much to it all in reallity. Most of the time, it was just an oil & filter
The chap concerned had come from a franchised dealership and he basically suggested that the complexities of the D3 were embelished by the dealers to promote customer returns for servicing.
To be fair, I have not had any real troubles with mine in over a year, and I do wonder if the franchised dealer 'thing' is totally necessary - even while the warranty remains. Any thoughts The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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Didn't think it was but for many people the cost is what would sway the decision, but it's your poll so I've removed itThe End
13th Apr 2007 6:05 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
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Answered second one down.
But only if TFC type bods did it!!I was a normal heterosexual chap, but in these new woke awakenings I now identify as a Wardrobe.
13th Apr 2007 8:15 pm
DG Site Moderator
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What infomation has your chappie given about spanner monkey training JMC ?....or are they just relying on the autologic to do the job 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Hey DG! Didn't get that far into the questioning. They are a small outfit with ony a couple of ex-franchise trained mechanics. However, I presume thier 'training' stopped when they started on their own.
I do seriously wonder about just how much complexity there is in the D3 though. I know enough about mechanicals (having built a few engines in my time) to believe that the main difference between a D3 and an older LR is the control electronics - just like an engine with an ECU. Engine still has pistons etc, just that it has a controling 'brain' rather than mechanical engine driven lobes on cams to drive things (like fuel pumps).
I imagine that the ability to interrogate the electronics via Autologic will, if done correctly, give them as much of a capability as (at least) the run of the mill main dealer.
13th Apr 2007 9:34 pm
DG Site Moderator
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Not intended to discredit... I just wondered whether they had sought D3 knowledge outside of the autologic 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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The autologic is capable of reading fault codes, not diagnosing faults, this requires human intervention, thought process and in some cases, the involvement of LR technical. Having used both Autologic & IDS, they are very different beasts, Autologic will read all the fault codes but only IDS can give the operator guidance as to the cause of the codes and access to details such as the GTC and DTC event cascade. Additionally, it's unlikely that an independent would be able to provide any software updates or replace items such as CJB or instrument pack, both of which require IDS. That said, it's common practice for independents to buy 'workshop time' from franchised dealers for tasks such as this, just adding a small mark-up to the trade price.
So far, i've held off getting involved in Disco3 /RRS diagnostics and fault rectification commercially due to most vehicles stil being first owner and within warranty - situations that will give the dealers a natural customer pool, although that situation may well change in the next six months or so
IF I did go down that route, IDS is the only sensible route to take IMO as it's currently the only tool that can fully access Disco3 / RRS and be truly independent of franchised dealers
I did wonder if this Scottish Git could temp you into a response on this one TFC
Do you think these guys would know all this, or are they just tinkering with things they don't know enough about?
Is proper LR training available (at a cost) to non franchised operators?The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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13th Apr 2007 10:21 pm
10forcash
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I'm not aware of LR technician training being made available outside of the dealer / PAG network, that said, IF the technicians were still working at a franchised dealer post Disco3 launch, they should have had the relevant product training and experience in resolving problems - and TBH, it's very likely they'll still have contacts within the dealership they can call on if things get techy.
The point I was trying to make (badly ) was that Autologic can be a good, if limited, tool in the hands of someone with experience of Disco3's but has limited functionality compared to IDS.
IDS does a lot of 'hand-holding' and it's not uncommon for apprentice technicians to operate IDS sessions on vehicles and be able to successfully locate and rectify faults without intervention by fully trained technicians (although all work is / should be checked & signed off by a technician or workshop supervisor). The only problem with 'ex-<insert> dealer technicians' is that in the main, their training and exposure to technical information relating to MY updates and issues ceases the moment they leave the dealerships, although they may well be familiar with 'old' issues such as mis-piped fuel filters for instance, it's unlikely they'll see many of these as most will be done by franchised dealers under warranty, 'new' issues will be completely unknown to them and without the appropriate support from regional technicians etc. they are unlikely to be able to resolve them, potentially leading to loss of credibility etc.
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with an independent carrying out minor tasks such as oil & filter change, brake pads & discs, ARB bushes etc. but I would use a franchised dealer for things such as powertrain issues, EPB problems or anything that may impact upon passenger safety systems. As I mentioned above, the situation will change once the early disco3's leave the warranty period and second (or maybe third) owners look for a cost effective alternative - and yes, to some extent, LR & it's franchised dealers have fostered the myth that the vehicles are too complicated for just anyone to look after.....
13th Apr 2007 10:48 pm
Chocolate
Member Since: 20 Dec 2006
Location: Yorkshire
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I used an independant BMW specialist when my 530d went out of warranty, same guy that I had used previously on my older BMWs.
Big Mistake, sure he had the diagnostic computer etc, but as the newer cars are now far more sophisticated he caused more hassle with my car than he fixed, he ended up taking it down to the main dealer in the end to help him out with it.
This guy started off as an apprentice with Audi, then moved to BMW and decided to set up his own specialist garage. He was brilliant with my older motors but just couldnt deal with the new technology.
I would be VERY wary of taking something as complex as the D3 to a local specialist who has probably spent most of his time changing gearboxes / engines in defenders etc.
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13th Apr 2007 11:02 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
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JMC wrote:
I did wonder if this Scottish Git could temp you into a response on this one TFC
Without wanting to take offence JMC - explanations due methinks!!!I was a normal heterosexual chap, but in these new woke awakenings I now identify as a Wardrobe.
Without wanting to take offence JMC - explanations due methinks!!!
Dont worry ronp - it's got nowt to do wi you Lad
From another thread on Mr Gordon Browns Taxes:
SN wrote:
Better in my pocket than those of that Scottish git
10forcash wrote:
That's no way to talk about JMC's group buys
ronp - you must have the same complex as me (looking for people picking on you) The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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TFC type bods did it!!
) was that Autologic can be a good, if limited, tool in the hands of someone with experience of Disco3's but has limited functionality compared to IDS.
