Member Since: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 806
oliver77 wrote:
it's just a shame that our goverment isn't contributing to road safety in a holistic way.
Oh, they are - didn't you know that "Speed Kills". The safety Camera Partnership is having an astonishing effect on the numbers of road deaths. The number of lives saved by developments in active and passive safety devices on modern cars are negligible by comparison.
Si.Pat's Van
D3 TDV6 S Auto
Rimini Red / Alpacca Leather
30th Jun 2006 1:09 pm
oliver77
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 398
I beg to differ on that front. It is widely agreed that safety cameras are placed in cluster sites (used to be blackspots) so what is it about this site which has meant that a number of collisions with a high KSI factor have occurred?
A collision is described as:- a rare, random, multi-factor event in which one or more road users fails to cope with their environment resulting in a collision.
So if someone has failed to cope with their enviroment we need to know why. Encouraging drivers to extend their observations and to give themselves space, particularly at a cluster site is the best option. Instead, in these areas their observations are split between the verge and their speedo.
Speeding is one element of bad driving and if you speed at dangerous areas such as outside schools, you shouldn't be warned that cameras are there, you should just get booked.
Clearly if someone gets stuck at 30 mph compared with 20 mph the chances of survival are greatly reduced but if routes were safer the effects would be greater.
I can't agree that speed camera's have had a major impact on casualty reduction. KSI rates fell by a very small amount last year when we had a record number of detection units.
We have to realise that Humans will always make mistakes, no matter how much we train them and penalise them. When the chips are down, your last line of defence is your vehicle.
The government would love us to drive a Toyota Prius but after recently studying a fatal collision case involving one of these cars, I would prefer to walk!
In 1997 the Swedish Government passed an act of parliament called Vision Zero where they work together to reduce road casualties with the target of zero. Type Vision Zero Sweden into a search engine and have a read. Then you'll see what our government COULD be doing
30th Jun 2006 1:20 pm
eddtheduck
Member Since: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Norwich
Posts: 164
Quote:
One thing to consider is that love it or hate it, the new Volvo S80 is in my opinion the safest CAR in the world but have a look at the headlines below
Interesting article and reflects a lot of what Oliver has been saying (very informative thanks Oliver). I was also interested to see the costs of the adaptive cruise control and blindspot cameras. I'm not interested in adaptive cruise control because of the potential to lose concentration. I am, however very interested in the collision waring and brake support technology. Also seem reasonably priced. Future technology for the D3 I hope.2008.5 D3 HSE, Stornoway, Ebony
2007 BMW 335iSE - lust for speed satisfied
30th Jun 2006 1:33 pm
oliver77
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 398
I'd be interested to see which system they adopt. Collision warning and avoidance systems in Volvo's are totally different to anyone elses. Mercedes for example will apply the brakes to avoid the collision and if you still hit the vehicle in front it will keep the brakes applied to bring you to a standstill as soon as possible. If you can stop very quickly with all of these systems you are likely to be hit from behind as part of that collision sequence. If you are stationary at this point with the brakes applied you will get a severe whiplash action on your neck. The Volvo system allows for a low speed collision with the car in front and only keeps the brakes gently applied so that if you are hit from behind, some of the forces will be absorbed by the forward movement of your car.
I'm not sure which system is available on Range Rover, I did see a car in the dealership with ACC.
As for Blind Spot information systems, the jury is out as far as I am concerned. They are so sensitive that the camera systems can be fooled by the sun causing the car to cry wolf a little too often.
The most important system that Volvo has that I wish the rest of the ford family would adopt is Volvo On Call. After a collision, the car will automatically call the emergency sevices detailing your exact location along with other important information. If you are injured in a crash the Golden Hour is critical. The car can notify the emergency services a lot quicker that you or a passer-by however long it may take them to pass by!
I should do some work now. I'm paid to write all of this information for people, maybe I should just tell them to check out www.disco3.co.uk and go home early for the weekend!
Last edited by oliver77 on 30th Jun 2006 1:45 pm. Edited 1 time in total
30th Jun 2006 1:43 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Agreed - an interesting arcticle with some GOOD points to make BUT it feels like a potential thin end of a wedge resulting in more 'nanny state' interference.
(rant on)
There seems to be a general drive these days to pander to the lowest common denominator in all cases - assume everyone is stupid and produce a governing system to fit that case. Penalise the majority for the problems of the minority is the name of the game.
(rant off)
BTW - slightly sideways, but you can substitute the words "breaking the law" for "stupid" in the above rant. The statement still stands.Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
30th Jun 2006 1:44 pm
simkna
Member Since: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 806
Sorry, I think my last post was taken in the wrong vein - I couldn't find a sarcastic smiley.
Bloody cameras have had no effect whatsoever, and never will. As you say, anything that distracts the driver from the task at hand (driving) can only be a bad thing.
Si.
P.S. Are you able to tell us more about why the Prius is a bad thing accident / safety wise?Pat's Van
D3 TDV6 S Auto
Rimini Red / Alpacca Leather
30th Jun 2006 2:00 pm
paul
Member Since: 12 Feb 2006
Location: Midlands
Posts: 594
Just waiting for the 'Police traffic officers should be out there catching real criminals' blah. This thread shows in stark contrast why Police do a fantastic job and why we need them to prevent and detect poor driving. Speed on it's own does not kill, poor driving kills.
I know I'd rather get robbed than wiped up by a drink driver who then gets 18 months in prison.
Bigger car = less chance of being killed. I have seen many a fatal accident first hand and the common trend that I always notice is the bigger the car the more chance there is of living. The amount of Metro's, old Rover 200 etc I seen crashed and am shocked by how serious the injury is. A new shape 3 series BMW springs to mind that had rolled and to see the accident you would have thought the occupants were dead, only to discover they had ran off! I know every accident is different but there always seems to be a trend that the smaller the car the worse the injury.2006 TDV6 S Auto, Buckingham Blue, for the wife and kids.
2013 BMW 535d M sport touring.
30th Jun 2006 2:06 pm
oliver77
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 398
Sorry Si, I wasn't sure how the remark was written. Could have saved my typing fingers a bit!
Prius investigation is ongoing at present so I'm unable to say too much. Will make a note to PM you when all is finalised. Probably September if thats good with you.
30th Jun 2006 2:07 pm
oliver77
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 398
Can't say too much about traffic officers as I'm surrounded by them in my office
Traffic officers do an excellent job and are so much more effective that cameras but their numbers have dwindled. Instead we have 3 or 4 uniformed officers per division as part of a crime audit team and another load on some other project. Bring back proper traffic plod to the roads and lets not police the motorways with Highways Officers who have all the budget but are powerless to act.
The problem comes back to the old human thing, tell someone they're no good at cricket, golf or sex and they'll laugh; tell them they'e no good at driving and they'll pour their pint over your head!!
30th Jun 2006 2:13 pm
paul
Member Since: 12 Feb 2006
Location: Midlands
Posts: 594
Oliver77
Don't get me wrong I can't stand traffic officers
One old boy who used to drive me around in our furry exocet is now on the Recon unit. I remember standing on the side of a dual carriageway for 20 minutes in the pouring rain with my dog on the lead watching him drive my van up and down the road skid testing as it was the only vehicle without ABS!
It was never the same after that!
Damn flat cap office dwellers we call them
Place for everybody though.
Regards Paul2006 TDV6 S Auto, Buckingham Blue, for the wife and kids.
2013 BMW 535d M sport touring.
30th Jun 2006 2:30 pm
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
if you want to make safer drivers, try removing the airbags from the car and replace with a 12" spear protruding from the steering wheel and see how they drive. The safer we make cars the worse our driving becomes so it all comes down to attitude.
30th Jun 2006 2:41 pm
oliver77
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 398
catweasel wrote:
if you want to make safer drivers, try removing the airbags from the car and replace with a 12" spear protruding from the steering wheel and see how they drive. The safer we make cars the worse our driving becomes so it all comes down to attitude.
That would work for a while but the same people who take risks would continue to do so. If you drive a car at 30 mph and crash into the spike you'll die. If you ride a motorcycle at 100mph on a road and come off it you'll die but people will still do it and greater speeds than 100mph, check out the roads of wales this coming sunny weekend.
The spike would work for some people but those who are prepared to constantly take risks are made up that way and would do so what ever they were driving or however big the spike unfortunately.
It's good to get an informed perspective on things
Makes a pleasant change from people posting nonsense at every opportunity to catch BN / TFC
Not that I'm suggesting TFC posts nonsense - quite the reverse Just those trying to catch him.....
30th Jun 2006 3:07 pm
paul
Member Since: 12 Feb 2006
Location: Midlands
Posts: 594
In the 1960's road deaths were over double what they are now. 8000 compared to 3200 in 2004. There was no airbags back then or seatbelts for that matter. My father believes seatbelts are dangerous as they make you drive faster because you feel more confident! Figures tend to not back that up.
Pedestrian deaths have reduced from back then as well.
3000 in 1964 down to 671 in 2004. With less cars on the road back then there must have been a right bunch of lunatics! Not that I was even born then mind you so it's not my fault. Who says younger drivers are more dangerous?2006 TDV6 S Auto, Buckingham Blue, for the wife and kids.
2013 BMW 535d M sport touring.
30th Jun 2006 3:18 pm
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
the deaths may have dropped due to airbags etc but get me some statistics on the amount of accidents overall and see if they have decreased or is it because with todays cars its harder to kill somebody (occupants) I think you'll find that roads are being designed better and accident investigation aids this proccess and speed cameras,advertising campaigns,loss of double demerit points (on long weekends here) and other initiatives have contributed to reductions not just safer cars which goes back to the point of my earlier post of attitude, similar to the theory of guns dont kill people people kill people, well cars dont crash themselves its all down to the muppet behind the wheel. will he speed,run the light,not fully stop at a stop sign, you get the idea. as for the spear it was just to promote the idea that this is not safe I'd better be carefull.
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Just those trying to catch him..... 
