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BBS SPY
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Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054

Cyprus 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Errrm not quite CaverD3,
Close though and it is all pretty mind bending and confusing stuff Thumbs Up
TBH it's nice to see someone taking an interest in such stuff and i am always happy to help anyone interested to learn a bit more about their vehicles and what makes them work. Wink

Quote:
standard or extended addressing prototocols that are clearly defined as either 11 or 29 bits long.


As stated, the bit difference in question is a difference in the bit length of the addressing, ie the header part of a CAN bus message. This makes the two distinctly different and not cross compatible. Every single ECU on the CAN buss's of a D4 have different addresses and node identifiers to a D3. The new node addresses are of course 100% Ford compatible Whistle

Those less technically interested may want to stop reading about now Wink

For example, 7E0 is the 11 bit addressing equivalent of 18DBF110 in 29 Bit addressing
Both contain the same elements of Bit by Bit prioritization, Message type and to / from identification, which is why i can recall such values from memory alone and easily pick these out from the many other bus messages as being Diagnostic messages sent from a tester to an Engine Management ECU, Quite sadly i can also read the rest of any such headed message and tell from memory what is being asked for or responded with.
I only wish i could remember the wifes birthday our our anniversary Rolling with laughter

Loss less message prioritization on CAN is done quite cleverly IMHO,
Suppose two nodes (ECU's) start transmitting a CAN bus message at the same time, one with a 7 at the start (Binary 111) and one with a 6 (binary 110)
Both assert the first 1 on the bus and read the bus state to see that 1, then they progress to the second 1 and everything is still fine, however on the third bit, only the ECU transmitting 7 (111) asserts a 1, and is happy to read the bus state and see all is well, however the ECU transmitting a 6 (binary 110) ant therefore not asserting a 1 sees the bus as having a 1 on it and so knows another ECU is simultaneously transmitting a higher priority message, and stops transmitting for the length of a message before retrying. Hence the higher priority message gets transmitted with no need to repeat and no time loss.

The bit rate is something different and remains at 500K for the high speed CAN bus in both addressing cases.

This means speed is not really an issue as Buss's for both addressing types and both typically have 2,500 messages on them per second, in fact, to keep all messages the same length they are typically padded out with a lot of zero's. If anything the 11 Bit Addressing would be faster anyway.

The addressing on the lower speed CAN bus also changes from 29 to 11 on the D3 to D4.

Hope this helps
 

Last edited by BBS SPY on 15th Aug 2011 6:05 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #82571714th Aug 2011 6:14 pm
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caverD3
 


Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922

Australia 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 SE Auto Fuji WhiteDiscovery 4

Thanks Colin.
Makes sense. Thumbs Up

Bit length not bit rate.

So the MSV2 works with both D3 and D4?

So what with re-map issue. The 3.0L has some anti re-map feature and needs to be bench programed?
What about the 2.7?
 â€œThere are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games”
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System. 
 
Post #82578615th Aug 2011 1:19 am
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BBS SPY
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Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054

Cyprus 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

No worries caverD3

Yea that sort of mainly sums it up. Thumbs Up

Regardless of which of the two addressing bit length types in use, The OBDII standard defines only two Bit rates for CAN bus, which use the same pins, 500K as High Speed and 250K as low speed. Only Land Rover / AKA Ford use an even lower speed on two different pins for their "low speed" bus. And that is without even venturing into the varios MOST bus communication types

It is all really complicated, but is indeed something that the MSV-2 can easily take in its stride and much more besides.

So yes the MSV-2 does work seemlessly with both a D3 and a D4 as well as all Fords and Jaguars past and present and it can physically communicate with almost anything.

However physical communication capabilites are just a small aspect of what is ultimately required.
Each and every ECU has it's very own anti access algorythm, which has to be dealt with and to then reflash them you have to pre upload the correct secondary boot loader for each ECU type as well as sorting out which files relate to which ECU. This is often a moving target.

It took us ages to get even close with the D3 and the D4 is still very much a work in progress although we have made good progress already.

So i am afraid you will have to be a little more patient yet before BAS remapping on any D4 is possible with an MSV-2
  
Post #82597915th Aug 2011 6:42 pm
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