Hot Tub
Member Since: 15 Aug 2017
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 1071
  
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Probably been asked before but looking to buy an 09 D3 the belts have been done at 105k but not the oil pump now on 130k what is the general opinion is it likely to be later type or would you change it anyway. Is it possible to do just the pump and how much to supply and fit?
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 2nd Nov 2017 3:33 pm |
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disco4ever
Member Since: 23 Dec 2013
Location: under the car
Posts: 402
  
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Have read that 09ers had been repaired due to weak oil pump Design. But very few it seems.
Do Not take your chances, a refurb Engine is around 3,5 k£. New pump is less than 200£ plus labour.
Only way to tell is fan off, aux belt off, belt housing off. Achim
own garage certified LR tech
Disco 2 TD5 MY 2001 - gone but still driven by another owner
Defender 110 TD5 driving me bananas with all faults
Disco 3 TDV 6 HSE MY 2005 gone @280.000 km
Disco 4 SDV 6 HSE MY 2012
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| 2nd Nov 2017 3:49 pm |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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According to JLR EPC all vehilces from VIN 9A510122 will have the modified oil pump.
If it's beofre this chassis range, then you will have to take the front cover off to see if it's already been done.
regards
Steve
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| 2nd Nov 2017 4:24 pm |
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Hot Tub
Member Since: 15 Aug 2017
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 1071
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So the vin no. Is 9A5076xx if I am correct it is before the number you quoted so it's not the modified oil pump fitted?
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| 2nd Nov 2017 6:05 pm |
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moorman
Member Since: 05 Jul 2009
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 276
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My 08 model year with chassis number 8A4812xx (last two numbers left off for obvious reasons) had the later pump design with the extra webs on. I bought a pump etc and tools to do the job when I did the cam belt earlier this year and found I didn't need to. I didn't see the point of disturbing everything to change the pump to an identical design with the potential for things to go wrong and possibility of the oil seal to pop out etc ( if it ain't broke don't fix it). If you are concerned pm me your engine number and I'll compare it to mine. I your still worried it wouldn't take long to remove the serpentine belt etc and part undo the cambelt cover sufficient to get a borescope in there to have a look.
Good luck.
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| 2nd Nov 2017 10:32 pm |
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Tripe
Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 285
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I reckon, this oil pump failure is becoming an urban legend.
I know some have failed, but what caused it to fail? was it a delaminating timing belt? Was the timing belt tensioner over tensioned/under tensioned and placed to much stress on mount point.
When I did my timing belt, I had 3 goes at setting the tension correctly, as after I rotated the crank 2 times, the tensioner marks were not staying in the alignment square.
i have spoken to a Landrover service manger who ran a major LR large city service centre for 20
Years and he never had a failed oil pump in that time, another LR Indy who I had quote on some work on my D3, doesn't swap the oil pump out when he does timing belts on 07 models as he has never seen any fail, in fact the only time he has had to work on the oil pump, is when a DIY Muppet stuffed up his oil pump replacement and oil  out every where.
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| 2nd Nov 2017 11:14 pm |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
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You have your head in the sand - there is plenty of actual real evidence of failures - just go by threads on this forum and the RRS forum.
All my local indies have stories of failures and even your main indy in Tas will not replace the belts on the relevant vehicles without doing a new oil pump as the risk to his business is too great.
Even Landrover (PSA/Ford) recognized the problem by changing the design of the pump and making it retrospective as the approved part for earlier engines. All Ford Territory engines have the upgraded pump.
I do agree that the issue is most likely related to the torque used when ham fisted mechanics replaced the cam belts after the first belt change and overstressed the housing where the tensioner bolts on. The reason I think this that there are virtually no tensioner housing failures prior to the first belt change - they happen after. I hope yours does not fail and I think that given your care with the torque it will serve you well (as long as you didn't over torque is getting it right)
If you are paying someone to to the belt change you are looking at around $1500 - $2000 AUD so the cost of including a new Ford oil pump at around $160 is less than 10% extra so why not do it - for piece of mind.
Sorry but the issue, no matter what its cause is, is real.
Garry
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| 3rd Nov 2017 3:00 am |
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Tripe
Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 285
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What failure rate in a component, constitutes an inherent design fault? 1%, 5%?
With the 2007+8 tdv6 engine being standard issue, in D3's, RRS, Jags, Citerons and Pugs, there would have to be close to a million suspect engines in circulation.
A 1% failure rate would suggest 10,000 failed oil pumps, for engines in these 2 years, making a further guesstimate, you would be looking at 2-3000 failures on the 07-08 d3 tdv6
Last time I looked, the online poll suggested 35 oil pump failures on 07+08 D3's, this is my guesstimate would be around a 0.01% failure rate.
JLR would not be losing any sleep with this failure rate.
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| 3rd Nov 2017 5:59 am |
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SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1144
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Your VIN is before the known point where the modified pump is fitted, thus could be the old style pump.
The only way to check for sure would be take the front cover off and have a look.
It may have been changed before or had an engine etc.
Regards
Steve
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| 3rd Nov 2017 6:42 am |
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WW88
Member Since: 19 Aug 2017
Location: Northants
Posts: 250
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Tripe wrote:What failure rate in a component, constitutes an inherent design fault? 1%, 5%?
With the 2007+8 tdv6 engine being standard issue, in D3's, RRS, Jags, Citerons and Pugs, there would have to be close to a million suspect engines in circulation.
A 1% failure rate would suggest 10,000 failed oil pumps, for engines in these 2 years, making a further guesstimate, you would be looking at 2-3000 failures on the 07-08 d3 tdv6
Last time I looked, the online poll suggested 35 oil pump failures on 07+08 D3's, this is my guesstimate would be around a 0.01% failure rate.
JLR would not be losing any sleep with this failure rate.
You think everybody who's had this failure is registered on here?
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| 3rd Nov 2017 8:00 am |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
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Tripe wrote:What failure rate in a component, constitutes an inherent design fault? 1%, 5%?
Instead of surmising and making assumptions go and get real information.
I certainly do not have that information but based on reported incidents on this forum and other forums, including our own in Australia the issue is real.
Likewise PSA/Ford/Landrover thought it a real issue and changed the design. While not issuing a recall, have specified the newer version be supplied when the old part number is ordered.
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| 3rd Nov 2017 8:12 am |
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geoff.
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: West kent
Posts: 8531
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Hot Tub wrote:So the vin no. Is 9A5076xx if I am correct it is before the number you quoted so it's not the modified oil pump fitted?
like steve says only real way is to remove the front cover and look 
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| 3rd Nov 2017 9:33 am |
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moorman
Member Since: 05 Jul 2009
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 276
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At the point of repeating myself the OP chassis number is well after mine and mine has the later pump fitted. Check your engine number. I've had multiple conversations with my local dealership where I have a contact, a local independent Land Rover trained specialist and had a conversation with the service manager of a L R dealership in the Netherlands and although they are all aware of the issue they link it to outside causes mainly over tightening of the tensioner bolt. Having witnessed the lack of torque wrench activity in many independent garages and many mechanics say they can estimate the torque of a bolt by feel then you can understand why some oil pump housings snap. Yes there is a flaw in the design of a batch of oil pump housings which were probably made by a different outside contractor to the later designs. I personally blame Ford as it's their engine and the buck should stop with them and they will have a paper trail to the engine numbers fitted with the weaker batch of housings sadly I can't see them telling us anytime soon. I wished I had checked my engine before I bought pump and bits and special tools, I'd now be a few hundred pounds better off.
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| 3rd Nov 2017 8:57 pm |
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Rob9990
Member Since: 06 May 2017
Location: Southeast
Posts: 72
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Just get it checked.
I did on my 09 (thanks Geoff) and it was ok. I have also read other owners of 2009 models have had the weaker pump. It's just a lottery.
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| 3rd Nov 2017 9:21 pm |
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Tripe
Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 285
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moorman wrote:Having witnessed the lack of torque wrench activity in many independent garages and many mechanics say they can estimate the torque of a bolt by feel then you can understand why some oil pump housings snap.
Before I did my timing belt I borrowed my neighbors very old tension wrench, and I played with the tension settings on a bolt on an old engine block, i found an extra 1/8 of a turn changed the tension on the bolt from 24Nm to 50 Nm, this hilighted how easy it is to overtighten any bolt at low tension settings and this prompted me to go purchase, a brand name low torque tension wrench with a calibration certificate.
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| 3rd Nov 2017 11:51 pm |
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