Member Since: 18 May 2019
Location: Bewdley
Posts: 430
Please school me on UK diesel...
Hi there.
I see 2 types of diesel at the pumps here. I use the higher sulphur content diesel in my 2005 TDV6. What are the pros and cons of using the lower sulphur diesel in the older Ford/Jag motors? Or am I over thinking it?
21st Jul 2019 2:09 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
U mean normal vs soooooper diesel (Ultimate/V-Power etc), akin to soooooooper unleaded?
21st Jul 2019 2:24 pm
adam
Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
I believe the higher the sulphur content the greater the lubrication properties for the HPFP and associated parts.Now Golf GTI PP, 7 speed DSG.
Ex D3 and D4
21st Jul 2019 2:25 pm
Gorilla63
Member Since: 18 May 2019
Location: Bewdley
Posts: 430
So then, my thinking is correct? The cheaper diesel is better for the older TDV6?
21st Jul 2019 2:27 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6570
I believe you must shorten the oil change intervals if using diesel with medium or high sulphur content. I think there was a mention of that somewhere.
I thought the V-power/Ultimate type diesel just contained cleaning agents and are supposed to help with power and economy. Whenever I tried them then the engine did seem smoother but mpg went up down so not worth the extra money.
Last edited by drmcw on 21st Jul 2019 6:52 pm. Edited 2 times in total
21st Jul 2019 3:00 pm
Gorilla63
Member Since: 18 May 2019
Location: Bewdley
Posts: 430
They may have some cleaning/injector agents in them too. From what I understand it's a different sulphur content. What I'm Tring to ascertain is whether the TDV6 does better on a higher sulphur content. I've used the higher content diesels in my other offroad touring vehicles over the years, but interested to get advice on UK diesel in TV e older TDV6 motor.
21st Jul 2019 4:33 pm
LaserTam
Member Since: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Essex
Posts: 828
drmcw wrote:
I thought the V-power/Ultimate type diesel just contained cleaning agents and are supposed to help with power and economy. Whenever I tried them then the engine did seem smoother but mpg went up so not worth the extra money.
That's surely a good thing? MY2012 D4 HSE Nara Bronze with some extra stuff
21st Jul 2019 6:26 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6570
kajtzu wrote:
I believe you must shorten the oil change intervals if using diesel with medium or high sulphur content. I think there was a mention of that somewhere.
Yup, the maintenance sheet states:
- If the vehicle is operated on fuel with a high sulphur content (over 0.7) the oil change intervals must not exceed 6,000Km (3750 miles)
- If the vehicle is operated on fuel with a moderate sulphur content (between 0.3 - 0.7) the oil change intervals must not exceed 12,000Km (7500 miles)
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
Isn’t high S fuel just a relic of third world? I though they were banned “here” ages ago?
21st Jul 2019 6:38 pm
Gorilla63
Member Since: 18 May 2019
Location: Bewdley
Posts: 430
So from posts, it would seem consensus is that higher content sulphur is better for older TDV6 engines. This was my understanding from my older diesel vehicles. Just wanted to confirm this is the same in the UK. Thank you.
21st Jul 2019 6:39 pm
L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2080
I believe there is nothing other than ultra low sulphur diesel ( less than 50 parts per million) available in the UK for road diesels . Its all to do with emissions and as previously stated more frequent oil changes are required if one uses low sulphur diesel ( Less than 500 parts per million) or higher content. But as I say, I don't believe its available in UK anymore at pumps.
In UK diesel must meet BS EN 590:-
As the table below shows, EN590’s requirements include the blending of up to 7% Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME) biodiesel with conventional petrochemical diesel. A PDF version of this table is available in the page’s download area.
Property Unit Lower limit Upper limit Test Method
Cetane number 51.0 EN ISO 5165
Cetane index 46.0 EN ISO 4264
Density @ 15°C kg/m3 820 845 EN ISO 3675, EN ISO 12185
Viscosity at 40°C mm2/s 2.0 4.5 EN ISO 3104
Sulphur content mg/kg 10.0 EN ISO 20846, EN ISO 20847, EN ISO 2088
Flash point oC Above 55 EN ISO 2719
Carbon residue % m/m 0.30 EN ISO 10370
Ash content % m/m 0.01 EN ISO 6245
Water content mg/kg 200 EN ISO 12937
Total contamination mg/kg 24 EN ISO 12662
Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME) (biodiesel) content % v/v 7 EN 14078
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons % m/m 11 (8) EN ISO 12916
Copper strip corrosion (3 hours at 50°C) index Class 1 Class 1 EN ISO 2160
Lubricity, corrected wear scar diameter (wsd 1.4) at 60°C μm 460 EN ISO 12156-1
Oxidation Stability g/m3 25 EN ISO 12205
Oxidation Stability h 20 EN 15751
Distillation recovered at 250 °C, 350 °C % v/v 85 < 65 EN ISO 3405
95%(V/V) recovered at °C 360
Cold Filter Plugging Point (winter) °C -15
Cold Filter Plugging Point (summer) °C -5
Manganese content mg/l 2.0 EN 16576
Filter blocking tendency 2.52 IP 387, procedure B
Last edited by L319 on 21st Jul 2019 6:55 pm. Edited 1 time in total
21st Jul 2019 6:51 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6570
DSL wrote:
Isn’t high S fuel just a relic of third world? I though they were banned “here” ages ago?
Yes, I think JLR states it as % without the symbol and a lot of other people state the figure in ppm (parts per million). So 0.3% would correspond to 300 ppm. I don’t think they sell such diesel anywhere in the EU as you said... but they might have done it when the sheet was written.
Edit: 0.3% is actually 3000 ppm, I was off by a magnitude
Last edited by kajtzu on 21st Jul 2019 6:57 pm. Edited 1 time in total
21st Jul 2019 6:52 pm
Gorilla63
Member Since: 18 May 2019
Location: Bewdley
Posts: 430
There are two diesels available at the pumps.
21st Jul 2019 6:53 pm
L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2080
The difference I believe is extra additives in the "Super fuels" including improved Lubricity but not sulphur as that's defined in the BS EN 590
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down so not worth the extra money.
