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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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| The Pre-Heater Once Again |
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OK, this is the answer:
The pre-heater, should only work when the temperature is below 4C. When below 4C the pre-heater warms the car interior up quicker than the engine powered heater can, when the engine is running only. THAT IS ITS FUNCTION, nothing else.
What the software is doing in the car is unknown (apart from it is thought to have been an idea of LR from the RR, but this is not verified) and it will not work other than the 'cheat' that some of you have found with the radio and that is a pure accident, that effects the CAN BUS (techies will know, I have no idea what that is).
The reason LR have not opened up the other options via the software is that the car heater control needs another connection to operate the in car heater flaps. If you could programme the Webasto heater and the flaps, all would work apart from the fact, as I said months ago the fuel could run out even though the car is switched off and parked, which would require bleeding in the case of a diesel. Be warned to try the 'cheat' could case damage to the heater flaps, maybe?
There is also the fact that the fuel tank is not wired to the heater sensors to tell the Webasto that it is running low on fuel, so in theory the pre-heater could empty the fuel tank if you are on low anyway.
The Range Rover has a different fuel tank and sensors to do just that. To wire in a sensor to a D3 is difficult and costly for fuel.
There is a remedy and one guy on the forum was actually offered a trial fix, but did not for reasons that are irrelevant to this take it up, I may.
If I do when I have sorted out warranty difficulties, I will then let you know the results. One step at a time.
If I do take this step, I will be able to programme the pre-heater virtually the same as my RR, which is very versatile. The fix if it works, could then be made available, but not through Land Rover. We will see?
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 21st Jun 2005 9:27 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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| Re: The Pre-Heater Once Again |
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BN wrote:OK, this is the answer:
The pre-heater, should only work when the temperature is below 4C. When below 4C the pre-heater warms the car interior up quicker than the engine powered heater can, when the engine is running only. THAT IS ITS FUNCTION, nothing else.
The reason LR have not opened up the other options via the software is that the car heater control needs another connection to operate the in car heater flaps. If you could programme the Webasto heater and the flaps, all would work apart from the fact, as I said months ago the fuel could run out even though the car is switched off and parked, which would require bleeding in the case of a diesel. Be warned to try the 'cheat' could case damage to the heater flaps, maybe?
There is also the fact that the fuel tank is not wired to the heater sensors to tell the Webasto that it is running low on fuel, so in theory the pre-heater could empty the fuel tank if you are on low anyway.
BN - I am normally in agreement with you, but I am not sure that the 4 C is correct - all details I have had from LR point to between 6 & 8 C. Also, the cabin "pre-heater" is one of the 2 functions derived from the Webasto fuel burning heater (it also works to provide auxiliary heating to the water when the engine is running to bring the engine up to temperature more quickly) . Not sure on the issue of "flaps" - if these were fitted, then we would not get hot air through via the "cheat" and lengthy discussions I have had with LR have never come up with this reason (their explanation is basically that even if some of the parts are in earlier cars they have not been fully tested so can not be approved for use!). I also know from Webasto that the fuel rate of their burners is quite low (can't remember the flow rate off hand) but unless you are down to your last gallon it's not going to run the tank dry for a few hours 
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| 21st Jun 2005 9:39 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Ecosse, I will pm you.
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| 21st Jun 2005 9:45 pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
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Brian, this is good. I agree with everything except one detail. If the low fuel warning is on, the supplemental heater does not fire up when the engine is started.
Its a bit futile trying to reproduce this at the moment, as its glorious summer, but I can assure you that the heater does know when the fuel is low, when it is in operation as intended as a supplemental heater. I seem to recall that this was the case when I was tricking it with the radio, as sometimes it would not work, and I am sure that this was when the fuel was low.
I did have a communication with customer relations, but it all went quiet, then my laptop was stolen along with all my correspondence, so I have not pursued it further.
I agree that there is a certain risk to the car systems using an unintended and probably untested, accidentally included system - I flattened my battery the other day with the similar pre-cool funtion, but it can't be rocket science to heat some water and circulate it through a few pipes and blow some air through it in the right direction!
When I did use it back in the winter, it seemed to blow plenty of warm air out of the face and screen vents, so whats the flap problem?
If it can be fixed properly, and in a way that would benefit the other owners who want the feature, then I am willing to volunteer as a guinea pig.
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| 21st Jun 2005 9:56 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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The heater was available as an option on the Disco 2 with the ability to start it on a timer, via a remote or by sending it an SMS message (basically all the options the Webasto provide). The surprising thing for me was LR have installed basically the same heater as standard in the TDV6 in the UK (not sure about other markets or engines) and not made the same methods of operation available.
It will (supposedly, it's not been cold enough since I've had mine to prove this) automatically provide supplementary heating to the engine and cabin if it's cold enough or, as we have found, via the timer function which is there but incomplete and needs a workaround to function.
I can remember a post from a while back (on here I think) where someone had contacted Webasto and they had confirmed that they can easily add all this functionality the heater fitted to the D3 today but their hands were tied by LR.
Something is obviously amiss somewhere, LR claim the timer funtionality should have been removed from the software but as we've seen all software upgrades so far leave it in. My personal feeling is LR intended to disable it until they'ed got it fully functioning for release in the 06 or maybe 07 model. Hopefully due to their error of leaving the timer function partly working they'll move it up their 'to do' list and we'll get a resolution sooner rather than later.
Brian, can you elaborate on your flaps  it certainly heats the cabin up as Gareth said so are we thinking of different flaps?
Does anyone know if the heater is fitted on the RRSport? If so what functionality does it have, if any?
Si The End
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| 22nd Jun 2005 12:50 am |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Slimer - the RRS has an identical setup & I have tested it as working in an identical manner (on a pre-launch car so I am not sure whether it may have been deleted frm view on later software)
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| 22nd Jun 2005 7:18 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
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Do you have to leave the radio on in the RRS as well??
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| 22nd Jun 2005 8:36 am |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Yes - the whole system seems to be lifted from the D3
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| 22nd Jun 2005 12:53 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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Strange isn't it? LR had plenty of opportunity to remove the timer from the RRS but they left it in.
Somethings Up.... The End
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| 22nd Jun 2005 2:38 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Remember the RRS I have got hold off is a pre-production demo vehicle - what would be interesting would be for you to post on the RRS site Martin has & see what the actual June onwards owners have on their vehicles - they will have to test the cool function in thie weather 
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| 22nd Jun 2005 2:47 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Sorry for the delay, been to LR Eastnor today. The heater is a very complex unit as I am sure you all realise. The source of the info at the moment cannot be revealed, but they have looked at the installation and a few minor problems are there, but not insurmountable. Gareth, you have slightly put the cat amongst the pigeons, because my source, who Ecosse has also spoken to cannot find the fuel tank cut out, which is a point of concern. You must have a very unusual D3. Are you in a position for your vehicle to be looked at possibly in the near future.
I will keep you all updated as and when
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| 22nd Jun 2005 8:00 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
 
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Intriguing stuff BN
-s
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| 22nd Jun 2005 8:16 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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I can see what we'll be talking about as Billing The End
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| 22nd Jun 2005 8:18 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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I do hope not.
I am going to post something very soon (possibly tonight) that I want you all to be very calm about. Brace yourselves 
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| 22nd Jun 2005 8:36 pm |
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