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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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rogue wrote:However, if your trying to pull 3 ton of D3 plus several hundred pound of kit/mud etc
Don't forget to add on rolling resistance and that wonderful thing called gravity. Personally I'd recommend that anyone fitting a winch to a D3 goes for a 12,000 pound one if it's electric so it's not working too hard, 10,000 would probably be okay if hydraulic as they don't have the same heat issues as electric ones The End
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 21st May 2007 9:21 pm |
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C6REW
Member Since: 10 Mar 2007
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 576
 
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Hmm, Interesting replies!
Rogue, I think you perhaps need to understand what my question was!
Is the winch I mentioned a small one then?
Which when you look at it, means I have no idea if it is small or large or somewhere in the middle!
When I was out with Duncan doing the recce for the Wiltshire day out, we got stuck. We where unable to use his winch as there where no trees and we had no anchor to use. It was of course great fun trying to find a solution. However, what became clear is that if I had a winch and possibly a small one, then we could have dragged ourselves out of the mire a little sooner. My problem as a complete novice learning off you great experts is what is a sensible size for a winch in these circumstances.
It seems that the answer slimer has given is 10,000 pound minimum! Well if that is the case and you experts think it is worth it, then maybe us novices should look at fitting one. Which brings us to the next question..... which one!
The tow bar winch as suggested by blue meanie and looked at by me is 9,000 pounds. What you have said is, this is not good enough. Pity as it seemed a great solution, but you are the experts and without doubt I will follow your example.
Time to look again then with fresh and renewed information.
Maybe I should not bother, but it seemed a possible way of helping out if we got stuck and I was happy to spend a little money if necessary.
Regards and a little confused but happy to go to bed.
Chris
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| 21st May 2007 10:58 pm |
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C6REW
Member Since: 10 Mar 2007
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 576
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Just received the following email from Watling:
Thank you for your enquiry regarding a towbar for your Discovery 3 and Helpmate winch.
The details and prices are as follows:
Towbar Ref. for Discovery 3 PR019DT £140.00
ISO 50mm Ball & Cover B+PB £7.80
12Volt Winch 2500kgf inc. cable & hook HM2500R/M £647.00
Battery connector HM1140 £18.00
Power lead extension 5m HM1150 £39.00
Fuse & holder £10.50
Carriage UK mainland £14.50
Sub Total
Vat @ 17.5%
The towbar is in stock and can be dispatched to you on a next working day delivery.
Unfortunately, the Helpmate winch is not in stock but if you place an order we should dispatch in 7-10 days.
If you wish to place an order, please telephone us on 01727 873661 to give us your address and credit card details.
So nowhere near good enough!
Regards
Chris
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| 21st May 2007 11:06 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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9000 will do it as long as you don't do any long pulls and give the winch plenty of time to cool down between uses, double/triple line it using pulley blocks when ever possible to decrease the load on the winch. If your using synthetic rope spool it all out as soon as you've finished so the winch cools down quicker and the heat doesn't damage the rope
(Hindsight is a wonderful thing, there's a few of us with rather knackered 9.5XP's  )
Sound like you could have done with a ground anchor Chris, put one of them on the shopping list too  The End
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| 21st May 2007 11:08 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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C6REW wrote:12Volt Winch 2500kgf inc. cable & hook HM2500R/M £647.00
You can buy one with a decent rating for less The End
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| 21st May 2007 11:12 pm |
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C6REW
Member Since: 10 Mar 2007
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 576
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Thanks slimer,
Even to the uninitiated it makes sense. Maybe the tow bar one will do!
Definitely going to bed now, had enough for one day.
Chris
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| 21st May 2007 11:12 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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Not sure if it's the synthetic rope or other factors but i've not had any problems with my winch overheating or brakes binding - but I am using steel rope, maybe the synthetic rope holds the heat in better?
That said, i'm working on a hydraulic winch kit for the D3, so choice of rope won't be an issue 8)
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| 21st May 2007 11:13 pm |
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Slimer
Site Moderator
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295
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10forcash wrote:... I am using steel rope, maybe the synthetic rope holds the heat in better?
Don't think 'better' is the right word , suspect steel helps with the cooling (heatsink) and synthetic just acts as insulator and slows the cooling
Hydraulic is definitely the way to go for more than occasional use  The End
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| 21st May 2007 11:16 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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Sh it!
just read the rest of the thread  DON'T get an underrated winch for front OR rear.... the best that will happen is you will still be stuck - the worst? well have you ever seen the end of a winch cable snaking through the air towards you scything everything in it's way?...... nope, neither have I and those that have are lucky if they get to describe the sight
I'n NOT scaremongering only (hopefully) injecting a bit of reality, if a bit of kit is underrated for the load you're putting on it, one day something will fail, the loading at which it will fail isn't going to be predictable and it isn't going to let go gracefully BE CAREFUL!
If you want a good alternative to the Warn, look at the Ryder 9 or 12,000 lb electric winch, approximately £450, not the same build quality but a substantial bit of kit all the same and you could replace it twice and still have change from buying one Warn winch....
Other than that - wait until i've got hydraulic winch kits for sale...
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| 21st May 2007 11:22 pm |
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christyler
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1168
 
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| Myths about steering issues. |
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NoDo$h wrote: It's all your fault Chris!!! 
I dont know why you started going on about the steering, and what the problem seems to be with this solution. people have been using it for years with no problems.
the only way you could end up with no steering is if there was a leak in a hose on the winch side of the control valve, and it pumped all the fluid out, this you would notice long befor it became a problem. this would mean that when you operate the winch the leak would be apparent. So stop operating the winch, no leak, no problem. Drive home with you steering and fix the hose.
Its more likley that a person would end up with a flat battery by forgetting to start the engine whilst winching with an electric winch than having a steering problem from fitting a hydraulic winch. CLUB "Ah Shor it'll be grand"
First D3 in the World with a Hydraulic Winch.
2006 Disco 3 TDV6 S Auto,
Diff Locks, Turbochipped, Raised Air Intake, 220volts Onboard, Onboard Compressor, Large Bore Exahust, Underbody Protection, One or two Other Mods as well.
Other toys include, Argo Avenger 8x8, Tatra 6x6 Motorhome (Being Built)
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| 22nd May 2007 2:00 am |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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C6REW
Get your self along to a winch training day before you buy a winch. It will give you a better insight as to what to buy. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 22nd May 2007 5:30 am |
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C6REW
Member Since: 10 Mar 2007
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 576
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Hi AndrewS,
Thanks for the advice. Maybe I will just leave it a while and see how much fun it is going to be!
Looking forward to the 9th June and hopefully will get to see winches in action once again!
Regards
Chris
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| 22nd May 2007 7:32 am |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
  
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Chris,
If you want to see some winching then we can do that last lane we looked at. If you take it slowly you wont get any body work damage.
Whilst I have used my winch quite a lot, Ive not had any formal training so most probably are doing it wrong, but having been stuck in the past at 2 am in the morning, it wasnt a worry at the time.
Andrew and TFC can advise best  , so maybe they will give a demo to those of you who are considering buying one. Duncan
-----------------------------------------------------
If I'd known I was going to be so thirsty this morning I'd have drunk more beer last night.
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D4 HSE MY13 SOLD
FFRR 3.6 Vogue TDV8 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
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D4 XS MY12 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
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| 22nd May 2007 7:40 am |
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Non Stick Nick
Member Since: 02 Oct 2005
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 772
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Best bit of advice on here is to go on a winch course before you purchase. Then you can see what you are letting yourself in for.
Slimer mentioned using pulley blocks. I would suggest that only 1 pulley block should be used to gain mechanical advantage.
On a 9000 lb winch using 1 pulley block to double the pull, it is theoritcally possible for the winch to pull 18000lb. If a second pulley is used this could rise to 27000lb.
I would suggest that this is too much for the chassis and the other bits the winch may be mounted to!.
Have fun, be safe.
Non Stick Nick I am a hob nobber.
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| 22nd May 2007 8:05 am |
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C6REW
Member Since: 10 Mar 2007
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire
Posts: 576
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Hi Duncan,
I feel a plan coming on!
Chris
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| 22nd May 2007 8:23 am |
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