I replaced 4 glow plugs.......now it wont tickover.......
Hi Guys,
Quick question if I may. Had all 6 glow plugs fail and last year when it was very cold (for the UK anyway!) I had to heat the engine with a heat gun to get it going.
Turns out all 6 had failed and all 6 snapped int he head whilst trying to remove them, the joy. In the end the garage replaced 4 of them, the easier ones. The car starts fine but the tickover until warm is horrendous, is this a result of just replacing 4?
I have read the glow plugs do more than just start the car in the Disco but surely after a minute or 2 they do nothing? The car is lumpy for a good 10 minutes after starting.....
The glow plugs are just heaters and only cycle for a few seconds then off, once the car is started they have nothing to do with running the engine. I suspect that if they had to drill them out then some debris from doing that has got inside a cylinder and maybe damaged an injector tip, or stuck on a valve seat.
Was the car running ok before the glow plug change.
Flack
17th Dec 2018 10:02 am
Bardley
Member Since: 02 May 2018
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 439
I think you'll find that the glow plugs do stay on as and when the ECU decides, in order to help combustion. They also stay on once the engine is running if necessary. It can take longer than 10 secs for glow plugs to reach temperature and start to do their work.
I'm guessing the issues you have are only since the weather has gotten cold again? Having four plugs working out of six isn't going to help cold starts or running, so on balance it's probably your two missing plugs that is your issue.
If the engine runs okay after 10mins. and also warm, then as well as getting the last two plugs fitted, it's worth plighibg the car in to a diagnostic tool to check everything else is okay too.
MAF/MAP etc. Can all give starting problems.
Two known non-working glow plugs has to be first call tho'.2011 MY D4 HSE
Previously 2001 D2 TD5, 1996 D1 300Tdi, 1985 90 2.2 petrol.
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17th Dec 2018 10:14 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8072
If the engine was turned for any reason during the removal process with the injector plug removed it can damage the injector tip.
An Iid tool should be able to detect the faulty injector(s).It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
17th Dec 2018 10:16 am
skinthespin
Member Since: 26 Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Cheers guys,
Yeah it was ok before the plugs were changed. I assume if there was debris in there then it would run rough even when warm?
Would 2 plugs being down make it do this? I have put it on a diagnostic tool and nothing, no MIL either......
Thanks again
17th Dec 2018 10:17 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8072
I agree with your first statement and was just about to say so
The glow plugs do nothing to effect the running of the engine, except for the first 20 seconds or so after the engine starts as they do remain on for that period.
If the spray pattern of an injector is not correct it will not fire until hot, if the spray pattern is a fine jet rather than a spray in can cause further serious damage over time, a little like a oxy-acetolene burner being pointed at metal without moving.
My guess is an injector tip(s) has been damaged either by shrapnel or the engine being turned while the electric plug is removed.
Injectors are far easier to remove than than heater plugs but very expensive new, two types of injectors are fitted to the D3 if changing make sure you get the correct ones, number is stamped on them.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
17th Dec 2018 10:34 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10360
Quote:
or the engine being turned while the electric plug is removed.
Not heard this before. Do you mean unplugging them while the engine is running ?
So you say 6 broke, but 4 replaced. What happened to the other 2 ? How was the hole blocked up?
Have you read fault codes ?
17th Dec 2018 1:09 pm
skinthespin
Member Since: 26 Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 10
hi,
All 6 snapped when trying to remove, just left the 2 awkward ones in there.
Ta
17th Dec 2018 1:49 pm
Parky63
Member Since: 10 Apr 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 401
Hi,
Last winter all 6 were diagnosed as dead. I've just had 4 out of 6 replaced. All 4 snapped and the awkward 2 weren't attempted. Last winter it was a ball ache - ignition on, wait till glow plug light goes out, wait another 20 seconds and then switch ignition off and repeat 3 times. Car would just about start and run lumpy for 30 seconds or so. Now, cold starting is a doddle - ignition on, wait for glow plug light to extinguish and turn the key. So for me, 4 out of 6 is good.
Cheers Parky, I am thinking it could have a secondary issue such as EGR maybe. Seems like a coincidence but anything is possible.
Belches out black smoke on start up too, just read the 24 page thread on here re EGR valves so ordered some blanking plates and see if that makes a difference.
17th Dec 2018 2:33 pm
Parky63
Member Since: 10 Apr 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 401
Skin,
I'm no expert but, black smoke on start up surely means it's firing and running rich. Unburned diesel produces white smoke. If only I could remember which way round it is for a new Pope 2006 D3 HSE Buckingham Blue
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17th Dec 2018 2:45 pm
skinthespin
Member Since: 26 Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Absolutely, could be a split intercooler pipe etc that's been disturbed during the work or a coincidence, not that I believe in them particularly.
My original question was really could 2 dead plugs and 4 new ones cause the horrible lumpy idle when cold and I guess it could but only if the garage have been proper monkeys.
No idea on the pope.
17th Dec 2018 4:28 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8072
Yes definitely, but only for a few seconds or minutes maximum, think about it, the ecu is giving the injectors the maximum amount of fuel to start the engine (remember the excess fuel device on old Diesel engines or the choke on petrol engines), four cylinders fire up quickly because they have pre-heat leaving the two without heat still receiving max fuel until they fire up, when they eventually do fire up the cylinders will have liquid diesel inside them, until this liquid has burnt away you will get a lumpy running engine and enough black smoke to upset the neighblors
Don’t blame the garage as I understand it after all they are following your instructions by only changing 4 heat plugs, the heads may need to come off to change the other two which may mean the body has to come off
If the two that snapped off snapped at the bottom of the threads they are equal to a loaded gun without a safety catch, should they work free whist driving they will shoot straight through the bonnet like bullet
If you have normal power after 1800rpm the turbo pipes and egr valves are good. A working FBH with a remote pre-heat may be a big help to cold starting.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
17th Dec 2018 5:39 pm
skinthespin
Member Since: 26 Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Hi there,
Not blaming the garage for changing 4 plugs, like you say, that was my choice. They could have done all 6 but the cost for the rear 2 was a disproportionate amount, so left them. There is a possibility (according to this thread) the garage caused some damage to the injectors and there could be a possibility they damaged something else such as an intercooler pipe etc.
What I am trying to establish is could the very lumpy idle be down to 4 working plug and 2 duff ones. I agree on the smoking but I also know I used to start the car warming it up with a heat gun, which will put a tiny amount of heat in when compared to 4 firing cylinders. If the lumpy idle went away after a minute or 2 while heat transfered to the other 2 cylinders I wouldn't mind but it seems to last for a good 10-15 minutes until a decent amount of heat is in the motor.
If I drive away when the idle is lumpy it drives ok to be fair, although I usually take it easy when its cold.
The EGR blanking plugs are so cheap and easy to fit I thought I would give them a go before wading into the garage and/or paying a large amount to fit the last 2 glow plugs, as it doesn't really make sense to me having 2 duff ones would cause this much of an issue.
If that all makes sense!!!!#
Thanks for the help!
17th Dec 2018 5:59 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8072
The engine should have settled down and be running smoothly well before that with only two bad heat plugs. Below photo is an excerpt from a post by Disco-Mikey, it shows the information an Iid tool can provide, an acceptable reading is between 800 and 1200. A compression test on all cylinders may also be necessary.
This is the best way to find out what the injectors are doing.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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