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Baben
Member Since: 15 Feb 2006
Location: Kyalami
Posts: 2059
  
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| SA D3 owners unite! Your feedback and input required please. |
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Guys, I have been thinking about our South African situation for some time.
Issues we face, (that are not necessarily unique to SA), but impact on our enjoyment of an otherwise excellent product are starting to bug me to the extent that I may even consider other brands when the time comes to upgrade my D3 in January 
I am sure most would agree that the D3 as a product is amazing. What doesn't quite match this is the service and support we get from Land Rover dealers on the whole, the unavailability of APPROVED aftermarket parts like long range tanks (because 80litres will get you nowhere in Africa), offroad tyres (to fit the STANDARD rims), dual battery systems (all of us have fridges), unavailability of "travel spares kits", inability to install the latest patches for issues like nav input on the go, outdated and overpriced navigation maps, overpriced spares (R6.5k snorkel. R5.5k 18" wheels), and other little niggles that start to irritate when you need to plan a long trip in to africa without any support from your dealer. In my experience the service and parts guys in our dealers are experienced, professional people, but they act like they have their hands tied - the message seems to come from the very top.
How about we put together a list of the things that bug us, then arrange a meeting with the head honcho of LRSA, and maybe a couple of the DP's, where a few of us can objectively present our case, in the hope that we can assist LRSA to put some focus on the little things that they could do to make our enjoyment complete.
Now, I am not trying to start a "bitching" session.
What I would really like to get from you all, is a list of the things that you consider important, that should be realistically achievable by LRSA, and that are specific enough that we can put them into an agenda for a meeting, then discuss calmly and objectively, with the focus, as I mentioned above, on improving the lot of the SA D3 owner, with the co-operation and involvement of LRSA.
Please post your feedback, and I will collate, or PM me and I will share my email address with you if you would prefer to keep your privacy.
If anyone out there already has access to the top of LRSA, don't hold back - send the details so we can start arranging a meeting with the top blokes.
Examples of what I think LRSA could do to assist:
1) Get some aftermarket parts approved already! We have really good local manufacturers that have good solid products. Many of these suppliers have products approved by other brands (like "T"  ) examples - roofracks, rear-mounted wheel carriers, long range fuel tanks, bullbars. Why is there nothing in SA approved by LR yet? I have had my D3 for almost 2 years and still nothing available on the approved list. My neighbour bought a new "T" product and instantly has access to aftermarket parts to customise his vehicle to his needs 
2) Acknowledge that a lot of D3 buyers actually want to take their vehicles out of South Africa, and provide appropriate support (not for free) in the form of spares kits, advice, insurance advice, etc..
Hopefully I am not alone, and you have other issues that you would like to share with LR. Please don't hold back, and remember to keep your input positive, specific, and reasonable. 
I am not affiliated with Land Rover, or any organisation in the motor industry. Just a D3 owner trying to get some mass-action started...
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 16th May 2007 7:03 am |
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Brucehun
Member Since: 09 Oct 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 106
 
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Anthony, I will join you. I attended a meeting at Synovate about LR about 18 months ago. I voiced some concerns directly to Dewald van Bergen at that meeting regarding approval for aftermarket accessories incl. all the things you have mentioned. There were about 15 people there. LRSA obviously do not listen to their customers otherwise they would have addressed these issues. Remember that LR cannot invalidate any warranty unless "they" can prove that that accessory caused the relevant failure.
I would rather drive a D3 with all the headaches than be seen in an 'overpriced' softie "T" 
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| 16th May 2007 7:38 am |
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Limpopo
Member Since: 04 Feb 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 30
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Good idea Baben
Main issue for me - if I can't buy standard AT tyres for V8 SE, I think I'll be moving to a Patrol or Cruiser.
This tyre failure, fo me, renders the vehicle almost useless. Almost everyone I talk to has had grief with the Pirellis or Goodyears - they are just not up to the job, especially when towing a heavy off road trailer. And why should we have to import our own AT tyres? LR must pressure the tyre manufacturers. We know the tyres are out there. They must be imported for us. (This laziness, by the way, covers many types of cars here. I suggested to Tiger W and T today that they name the tardy manufactuers on public notice boards at all their outlets.)
As well, I was quoted about R3000 for a new standard tyre, let alone an AT. Are they nuts? I bought BFs for a D2 a year ago for about a grand.
Then there's the charging systems story. What's wrong with a National Luna system (or similar) that by-passes the car's electrical systems. Why can't LR either tell us, or approve their use.
So far as long range tanks are concerned, I run a V8. How far am I going to get without cans. Problem here is that there's nowhere to put the tank unless the wheel is removed. Then where does the wheel go. The double-wheel Australian carrier, with new steel bumper? And the warranty?
The mapping. Great interface, design, poor mapping. Why is LR at the bottom of the mapping totem pole. Who's jumped into bed with Garmin? Why can't we have Garmaps or equivalent. How many of you are in the ridiculous situation of having another GPS stuck on the windsceen?
I don't know about the auxiliary battery story, but dread to think.
These issues indeed will put African D3 buyers (or the guys going off road, at least,) back into competing products. There are too many problems.
By the way, how on earth is anyone going to jack up a D3 on an African dirt / sand road with the ridiculous swizzle (spelling) stick they provide?
Sorry, it just came out as a whinge. But I fear no one is going to listen anyway. The boys at LR here, in my experience, don't want to take ownership of key decisions.
Not to say that your quest, Baben, isn't valiant, sensible and right. Must look at it from the bright side...
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| 16th May 2007 6:01 pm |
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Deondef
Member Since: 08 May 2007
Location: Randburg
Posts: 790
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I am definitely in - although I will only take delivery of D3 today (hopefuly). My 20 years experience with more than 4 LR products have given me enough frustration.
I have been a member of the Land Rover Owners Club of South Africa for many years. I know the chairman quite well, but it is written in their constitution (I think) that the club will not get involved with issues between owners and any dealer or LRSA. I have tried it once before and ended up writing a personal letter to Moira Moses the then MD of LRSA - it was actualy answered !
So if I may (not officialy being a D3 owner yet), publish my list is as follows:
1) Spares kit which you can take along on extended trips - I made use of this service 3 months ago for my Defender. Full re-fund if parts are returned un-used/damaged.
2) Aftermarket accessories approved by LR
3) Information/tips on real off-road driving - this will be my first ever auto 4X4 !
4) Direct communication with interested LR people to record the good, the bad and the ugly on this vehicle.
I volunteer my services in terms of meetings, colating of info, etc for this good cause .
Deon
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| 17th May 2007 8:44 am |
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heine
Member Since: 07 Feb 2007
Location: Midrand
Posts: 4054
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My Defender was still under warranty when I stopped taking it to Land Rover (in Menlyn in those days)
Thankfully things seemed to have improved since then . I must say that I am very happy so far with LR Midrand as far as service goes , but I wouldn't want to be a LR service advisor for all the money in the world . (Alternative jobs like rectal thermometer tester seem more appealing  )
BUT I think that they are seriously lacking with things like TSB updates , the GPS on the move issue for example. How much of this is up to the individual dealer and how much is LRSA I would like to know.
I feel pretty much left out in the cold as for as official communications go . If it wasn't for forums like this , much would pass us by .
I have owned BMW's for years , and in comparison the feedback from BMWSA is brilliant . Monthly newsletters, regular customer surveys (not only after servicing and initiated by BMWSA not the dealer etc .)
The issue with availability of approved after market fitment products will be there a while still , I suspect , mainly because it seems to be a huge process to get something officially approved. A friend of mine was tasked to make underbody protection for the X3 and the whole process took about 18 months and much red tape to approve .
With this in mind I feel that LRSA should have a more lenient stance on fitment . Obviously it needs to be done by a reputable dealer and not some backyard practitioner .
My 2c
Heine
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| 17th May 2007 8:44 am |
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charless
Member Since: 07 Mar 2007
Location: Paarl
Posts: 46
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You can count me in as well.
This is the first Land Rover I have owned, and hopefully not the last.
I read these post last night and was about to reply when I got a call from Synovate this morning, regarding my experience servicing the vehicle @ Menlyn. Let me think……not that great at all. I requested fixing of a couple of TSB’s, which I would not have been aware of if it was not for this site. None of them was fixed, and still no response even after speaking to the service manager?
Back to the hopefully not the last, will see……
I have to agree with Heine in terms of BMW. I owned a number of BMW’s and Mini’s and between the dealer and BMW’s Owners Circle (managed by them), I had regular feedback from BMW regarding issues, invitations to various events, assistance with accessories etc.; none of this so far from LRSA, although I did receive a mail from them yesterday regarding a golf day. (Only applicable to the first 12 people that replied)
BMW was very helpful with pointing me to right guys fitting approved accessories, phones etc. I fitted one or two things myself, which they quickly activated when asked. LR can even reset some settings in the instrumentation ECU, which they now trying to resolve by ordering a new instrument panel???
I would think that LRSA would take it for granted that a large amount of LR owners are not just buying the vehicle for daily commute, but also to use it for what it has been made for and assist those owners with what ever information and help they can. I mean after all at the end of the day I would mean return customers, referrals etc.
That is my 2 cents worth, also willing to help etc.
Thanks
Charles
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| 17th May 2007 10:36 am |
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charless
Member Since: 07 Mar 2007
Location: Paarl
Posts: 46
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Suggestion / Idea 
By the look of it, everybody that replied so far, either live or work in the Midrand area.
What about a get-together at some point to discuss this and other isuues etc?
Charles
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| 17th May 2007 11:01 am |
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heine
Member Since: 07 Feb 2007
Location: Midrand
Posts: 4054
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charless wrote:Suggestion / Idea
By the look of it, everybody that replied so far, either live or work in the Midrand area.
What about a get-together at some point to discuss this and other isuues etc?
Charles
We were already looking at maybe the Baron next Friday
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| 17th May 2007 11:20 am |
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charless
Member Since: 07 Mar 2007
Location: Paarl
Posts: 46
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Cool.
Please let me know what the plans are
Thanks
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| 17th May 2007 11:38 am |
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Richard SA
Member Since: 24 Apr 2007
Location: St Francis
Posts: 189
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Hi All
I am definitely in
This is my 6th Landy and my 4th Disco,  my last disco went up in smoke on the 18th of March 2007, 17 minutes and a D2 ES was a pile of scrap metal.  (see my gallery). My view is still the same and that is: The LR product is an amazing product and the leap that was taken from the D2 to the LR3 is revolutionary.
My view is that most problems are not product related but related to the quality of workmanship we get from our workshop staff which is not at the standard of the product. Normally if the issue is more than a normal service it ends in a lengthy operation of guessing, exprimenting and hoping for a miracle in an attempt to fix it.
I can vouch for the attitude we are getting from LR dealers in SA. If you have an issue it depends to which dealer you go to and what your relationship with the service manager and DP is. This makes it clear that not even the dealers are on the same page of what “excuse†they will offer the client.
My issue was this “joke†of a tow hook that is provided with the LR3, it looks more at home on the wife’s Mini Cooper. I took my issue to 3 dealers, 3 different solutions to my problem. I have horses, and cart them in a horse box with a double axel, the tow hook is to low, the horse box leans forward and thus most of the weight is on the front axel and the horses stand on a down hill, a definite no no. My D2 had no problem. The responds I got was:
Dealer 1 (purchase the LR tow bar with the cross supports) hell what an eye sore this “plow†is.
Dealer 2 (there is a LR kit that clips in like the std one yet it has a mounting plate where you can adjust the height of the goose neck. Cool where can I get it?  Not available there where problems with parts being missing on import, and the base plates touches the boot lid if the boot lid is fully opened. The only option is the “plowâ€)
Dealer 3 (there is a kit available from a local supplier “Big Country 4x4†yet LR will not cover any issues / problems on the rear chasse / body if this is mounted. It is not a beauty of a tow bar, yet it looks a lot better than the “plow†it does not affect your approach angle as the std LR and “plow†does.
I hear what you all say regarding of road tyres, pressurizing LR to force the TWT etc to import them is not really the option. If you in Botswana , Zim, Namib or Moz and you need a tyre 255 60 R18†your up the crock infested creek with a sinking boat and no paddle. I would prefer a 17†rim there you might have a fair chance to find a tyre, and if possible a steal rim, those of you that have done some off road know how easy you clip a rim against a rock or obstacle. A alloyed rim you not going to “beat†back in shape with a “hammoer†and a piece of wood.
The dual battery, there was a thread where there was a test done by the CSIR to certify that the system is a fully isolated system yet it is not LR approved.
Yes you could force LR  to proof that the after market item you have fitted did affect your vehicle. Yet if you want to go down that road you must have lots of time and money.
My suggestion is that we approach LRSA on a different rout namely asking them what is the approval criteria of an after market product.
There is not even synergy between LRUK and LRSA, in the UK Turbo Chip is a approved option in SA well we know.
Regarding the suggested spares pack for going into Africa. The offer from LR Midrand’s DP Marius to provide it with a 20% handling fee is    ………. Your vehicle is with a 3 year maintenance plan and most of us will probably sell it before that expires or close to after It expires so what we going to do with the spare parts.
I think LRSA’s view regarding support on dual batteries, rims, tyers, tow bars, GPS, GPS maps, Turbo chip, spare part packs and etc is well summarized in a response I got from LR.
“ If you want to travel into Africa use a 4x4 with a engine and not a 4x4 with a computer. “ 
Hell this was a got bitching session, I feel better but still frustrated to have spend 500k on a 4x4 and I get governed on what I may or may not do with it or to it by the same group that took my money and this group does not seem to be very interested to make there product adaptive to the Africa environment.
The thought I leave you is this “picture the seen: You have stopped under a tree in mid summer in Botswana after a 6 hour trip, your mate with a T___ Hi___ offers you a nice cold beer and you accept it sheepishly since your beers in a 4x4 twice the price of his are warm since you are not “allowed†to fit a second battery or aux power point to keep you fridge cold.â€
Maybe we should make an add or movie with scenes like this and send it to LR.
Like their TV add “ you can drive to the end of the earth mmm nice and once there you cant even have a COLD bottle of champers to celebrate your achievement since you don’t have a fridge.
Richard SA
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| 17th May 2007 11:41 am |
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Baben
Member Since: 15 Feb 2006
Location: Kyalami
Posts: 2059
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OK, just had a chat with Marius, the DP at midrand.
He says, no problem, he is keen to meet with one or two of us, and discuss our list of requirements. Very pleased to work with us. Will collate a list and get a meeting set, unfortunately this is gonna have to wait till I return from Angola, but hopefully in the interim we get more feedback too.
Marius said that they are busy approving a dual battery system, and will have results in a few weeks. This is a step forward.
The long range fuel tank, he says is a safety issue, and will be a battle to get official approval on, but he is aware that FR have developed one.
Tuning, he says we can discuss, but no official response on that.
Apres kits he will discuss with Jonathan, the spares guy, and agreed to sell us the spares, and refund 100% as long as they are returned in a saleable condition.
So, a bit of good news, but a way to go still
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| 17th May 2007 12:00 pm |
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heine
Member Since: 07 Feb 2007
Location: Midrand
Posts: 4054
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yeah but what about the GPS patch
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| 17th May 2007 1:23 pm |
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Richard SA
Member Since: 24 Apr 2007
Location: St Francis
Posts: 189
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The dealer received an update today from the UK for the change on the move patch, they want to test it first on a 2007 on the floor and will let me know. Ill post an update as soon as its done on mine and WORKS. White LR3 TDV6 2007
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| 17th May 2007 5:35 pm |
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Deondef
Member Since: 08 May 2007
Location: Randburg
Posts: 790
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Took delivery of my D3 at 15h00 today. Must say the sales process from LR Sandton (never dealt with them before) was very efficient, thanks to sales executive - Jacques Anderson who also introduced me to sales manager - Etienne ? Must say, unless I am out of touch there is quite a difference between buying a Defender and buying a Disco - must be a price thing
So, with one brand new Disco sitting next to my 2000 Defender in the garage, two LR caps and a Cobb! This is my very first impressions:
1) Visibility all round is great - even my kids remarked on this - "Imagine game viewing in this !"
2) I need to get used to auto - there is definitely a lag when accelerating - but when it accelerates - this is testerone stuff !
3) Did not have enough time not crawl underneath long enough - but did fit the tow hitch which even my wife remarked "is'nt it very low?" . Was very amused by the heavy steal thingamagigs dangling at the back - I assume this has something to do with levelling system. Where do I get the male adaptor for the white trailer coupling - it's centre pin is female whereas the normal one is male
Interesting - that is why I am posting this under this topic - Sandton LR has a front runner roofrack plus other accessories displayed in their showroom - "does this mean that it has been approved by LR?" I ask, "Noooo" was the reply.
I am off to Potch and a plot we are busy developing at the Vaalriver tomorrow for some off road testing!
Watch this - or any other space
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| 17th May 2007 6:15 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
 
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Richard SA wrote:The dealer received an update today from the UK for the change on the move patch, they want to test it first on a 2007 on the floor and will let me know. Ill post an update as soon as its done on mine and WORKS.
The 2007 should work anyway shouldn't it......? Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 17th May 2007 6:18 pm |
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