Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
9th Feb 2018 10:32 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1243
It's also a shame LandRovers engines are not on par with BMW or Audi with the wide scale of small to large engines and refined ?
10th Feb 2018 9:51 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Terrible shame ...but the JLR have only been producing their own engines since 2012 ...I guess the Germans have a bit of a head start.
10th Feb 2018 10:01 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
That and the fact that Audi are owned by the biggest motor manufacturer in the world and are able to buy in from that wide range of engines.
On the plus side, JLR haven’t needed to resort to deception to get emissions approval 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
10th Feb 2018 10:08 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
Must admit I’m pleasantly surprised with the SD4 240. A bit rough when cold, slight hesitation when pulling away but that’s been present on most auto LRs regardless of engine manufacture. It’s smooth and quiet once warmed up and quite perky. Pretty pleased so far.
Fuel economy, according to the car, 44mpg.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
10th Feb 2018 10:11 pm
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
fat bloke wrote:
It's also a shame LandRovers engines are not on par with BMW or Audi with the wide scale of small to large engines and refined ?
Apart from the law suits over all the failed BMW N47 engines!
LR are not that bad, the odd crank failure aside...
A friend had one of these fail on his 4 year old 520d M Sport. It was his umpteenth BMW. BMW’s response was:
“Book it into your dealer and have them strip the engine, at your expense. If they say it’s a manufacturing defect, we’ll talk.”
ie if they say it isn’t a “manufacturing fault” then the cost of the strip down, reassembly and ultimately, the repair is down to the customer. Even if it turns out to be a manufacturing defect, they were still only offering “to talk”, no commitment to actually pay!
With between 80 and 90,000 miles on it, he sold it to a trader, a trader “specialising in problem cars” for just £4,000. When the trader collected it he said that he’d recently collected a BMW X3 direct from the dealer, having paid the owner nothing but simply having settled the dealers labour charges for dismantling the engine!!
He’s since bought a used Jaguar XF 2.2d and he’s well chuffed with it
And I won’t even start on the camchain issues on BMW’s “Prince” engine in the R56 Cooper S...
So, let’s forget about the wonder of BMW engines, or the broad range of off the shelf VW engines fitted to Audi’s. JLR have done a good job building an engine range and factory from scratch and have stood by their Ford sourced engines far better than BMW would appear to have stood by their own N47 units.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
11th Feb 2018 8:51 am
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
Red Merle, exactly right.
There is a long thread on the RRS forum about the crank failures and to read it and some of the responses you would believe that your car was bound to fail imminently.
JLR are not as bad as they are painted sometimes. You can get tunnel vision when you spend a lot of time on a forum!!
11th Feb 2018 9:51 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13899
At 218,000 miles I’m happy with my old buses reliability. I’ve owned and run BMW and Audi’s alongside my Discovery. I’ve got shot of them all and kept my old bus which is coming up to her 13th birthday. She has been to most stupidly reliable car ever. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
11th Feb 2018 11:03 am
ratrunner
Member Since: 20 Nov 2015
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 194
Seems overall Disco sales have been in decline in Europe for sometime
So many people now see LR as unreliable,it just seems to have this reputation whether its justified or not.When I say to people I have a Land Rover D4 I am getting used to the comment has it broken down yet ?..well not yet but start stop does not work, never has.My first land Rover a D1 back in 19991 broke down eight miles after I collected it brand new from the dealer. After that I flirted with many marques and had three Nissan Teranos brilliant never broke down but the temptation was to much and I went back to a D 2 which was good,just that,good.
25th Feb 2018 4:00 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6570
The sales data doesn’t support causality with vehicles being unreliable. Other kinds of studies would be needed to determine what the reasons are, if any. For 2017, I pulled the figure from carsalessdatabase.com.
Sales for Discovery in Europe
Click image to enlarge
Granted, sales are significantly less than 20 years ago. They jumped in 2005 and 2010 when D3 and D4 were introduced. Looking at the data the sales are actually up in Europe for every year starting 2014 when the D4.5 facelift was introduced. Personally I liked pre-D4.5 look more but either I’m wrong or how it looks is less important than other factors.
My amateur guess (not a car industry analyst) on why sales are down from 20 years ago range from taxation, cost of fuel, more choice within the brand, more choice outside the brand, different sales segment focus (why we are bitching the D5 for...), consumers in Europe want to buy greener vehicles, macroeconomic reasons (recession starting 2008/2009), consumer confidence in the future, etc. in no particular order.
Edit: I was curious so I plotted the same for US sales. The housing and banking crisis shows very nicely up there. Must have truly sucked to be JLR USA or a dealer in 2008-2009.
Sales for Discovery in USA
Click image to enlarge
For 2017 the sales in the beginning of the year in were very low. I guess they were out of stock and didn’t want to/could not build more D4.5 models - I think last D4.5 rolled out October/November September 2016? So they had to be out of NAS vehicles except whatever they still had in play at distributor level depots or at dealers. The cool down in sales lasted until D5 introduction in June 2017. Sales after D5 intro have been back to normal levels.
Edit N: last month was 9/2016
Last edited by kajtzu on 25th Feb 2018 9:39 pm. Edited 1 time in total
25th Feb 2018 6:19 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
Unfortunately, D4 stopped in the September. I remember because I was trying (but failed!) to buy a new one at the time 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
25th Feb 2018 9:30 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6570
That’s fine, a month here or there doesn’t matter when we talk about ro-ro carriers and stockpiling stuff near the harbor. due to costs involved I doubt they’d let them leave half empty either. The official figure for factory orders to USA is 3-4 months after all.
25th Feb 2018 9:36 pm
Canburne
Member Since: 15 Jan 2013
Location: Devon
Posts: 2029
Certainly since 2005/6 there have been lots and lots of much cheaper soft SUV's available in Europe so it is not surprising JLR is losing out in sales.
"the inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings....the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" Winston Churchill
2016 D4 Landmark Club Waitomo ...or is it Club Tempest????
2015 D4 HSE Aintree Green
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
...but the JLR have only been producing their own engines since 2012 ...I guess the Germans have a bit of a head start. 
due to costs involved I doubt they’d let them leave half empty either. The official figure for factory orders to USA is 3-4 months after all.
