Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
and there lies another reason for the D3 used prices to go up some more....the gap between 3 and 4 narrows a little,
Quote:
I ordered the car last Weds. The dealer tried to load it today
hayloft,
I'd be a little p d that it took the dealer what appears to be a WEEK to load your order......one wife.......livid
Last edited by ad15 on 21st Sep 2009 11:06 pm. Edited 1 time in total
21st Sep 2009 10:29 pm
Smarticus
Member Since: 01 Jan 2005
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 655
Re: Surround camera system on back order.
Winger wrote:
you'd have to say that these bunch couldn't organise a up and brewery.
Winger - do you think your just being a tad harsh here ? Bringing out a new model means an absolutely huge task of supply chain management. Lots of new suppliers all having to deliver a new component at wafer thin margins to a manufacturer who cannot possibly acurately predict the volume of supply they will need. Its a logistical challenge equivalent to landing a man on the moon.
I bet the camera manufacturer is new to LR, totally understimated the demand volumes and hasn't got their own manufacturing and supply chain capacity properly in place. LR will be hitting them with substantial penalties right now for their failure to deliver.Disco 4 TDV6HSE
Defender 200TDi CSW
RR Evoque
21st Sep 2009 11:04 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
and actively looking elsewhere for an alternate supplier too I'd bet Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
21st Sep 2009 11:11 pm
ad15
Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
winger by name....... (no offence)
but as mentioned above, both sides of the coin here,
YES LR have prob been caught out by the demand BUT it is the job of the buying dep to forecast demand and at least have some stock of parts to be able to staisfy at least past the first month of sales..
It's a pretty poor show that LR have to pull this option as early as mid september on a new model, you can bet this will be forgotten when it comes to the sales figures presented to the government when it looks at the baleout etc etc.
the fact is, it's survival of the fittest, and LR should have had a good 6 month supply of the camera units. not 6 weeks....
I give you tomtom as an example, the iphone cradle was announced months ago, it's still not available, wont be available until next month, you can bet it's a supply chain issue that they are resolving first so that they have maximum stock available to be able to gain the headlines needed these days..
LR, you did mess up i'm afraid.... if you werent ready, you should NOT have launched 2010 models in July..... one wife.......livid
21st Sep 2009 11:13 pm
Smarticus
Member Since: 01 Jan 2005
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 655
LR aim to have about 6 minutes stock of components - certainly not 6 weeks and 6 months would bankrupt them immediately. Their suppliers deliver components like these direct to the manufacturing line having received a schedule build report maybe as much as 12 hours earlier. The manufacturers cant afford to build stock in advance either as the margins they have on the products is very small.
The parts needed to build an HSE probably cost LR about £20k - so they ideally only want to pay their suppliers after they have been paid by the customer for the new vehicle. The real cash drain on LR is the money they spend developing the car, testing it, producing the first batch, bringing in new tooling etc. This can involve an investment of £100's millions.
And by the way - our HSE has the cameras on Disco 4 TDV6HSE
Defender 200TDi CSW
RR Evoque
21st Sep 2009 11:21 pm
ad15
Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
apologies for the lack of acuracy on timings smarticus (appropriate name )
am not in the motor industry but am in manufacturing- brand etc etc.
didn't realise it was cut "so thin" in motoring..
so all it takes is one ship from the far east arriving late and the whole lot goes out the window....
I'm now happily assuming that the camera loom or part of it is not made in the UK.....one wife.......livid
21st Sep 2009 11:25 pm
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
No, I don't consider myself to be harsh. I am, after all, a strong brand supporter.
Apart from the cameras, what about the large number of pre-production vehicles that were released into the dealer system without being checked to ensure that they all met "retail" standards, and had to be quarantined as a result....did anyone here buy one of those? What about the software issues that LR is already aware of, but for the moment is not in a position to do anything about, and is working on a fix? What about the 2,000 plus vehicles that may have an assembly fault, resulting in the vehicle entering "limp home" mode? And there's more......
After all the time they have had with low production, you'd have thought this could have been usefully put to ensuring everything went smoothly.
Oh, and if you are lucky enough to have the cameras, you might also have the "limp home" problem....enjoy!
22nd Sep 2009 7:30 am
stevo
Member Since: 25 Apr 2006
Location: north queensland
Posts: 107
Does this mean that cars ordered without the camera system will now be lifted in the production schedule?Disco 4 Sept 09
22nd Sep 2009 7:33 am
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
If cameras are a must on the vehicle, the order goes into suspense to the benefit of other orders. Also, LR are giving priority to "contracted" vehicles, as in those that are based against a customer order as opposed to a dealer order.
22nd Sep 2009 7:59 am
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
This is turning into an interesting (and slightly off-topic discussion)....
I don't believe that LR would have 6 minutes of stock to feed their production line (were you exagerating?)...
There is also no way they would have 6 weeks of stock, never mind 6 months - it's impossible....
I would think that 6 hours would be reasonable though for an automotive JIT operation where the suppliers are on the doorstep....
Also, why are people (ok - I mean ad15 ) assuming that LR buy these cameras? Nearly all parts are brought in as assemblies from the various suppliers - most of which have intermediate warehouses around the factory and produce the subassemblies in other plants.
The dash assembly is supplied fully built and ready to fit into place and connect...the same for the headling which will already house all of the lights and panels etc.
The mirrors will also come fully assembled too and as such is the responsability of the supplier to source the cameras unless their vendor is actually LR as some are suggesting.
In automotion, there is a very strict and rigid evaluation (PPAP/APQP) and auditing system (ISO/TS) whose purpose is to ensure the quality and availability/capacity of every single part and process in the supply chain...right down to 2nd/3rd tier suppliers - in fact, it is usually the tier 1 who will perform all of this evaluation for tier 2 etc etc down the line....however, for LR to approve the 1st tier suppliers, they must also see the work carried out by this supplier with their sub-supplier etc.
There is no such thing as LR getting 'caught off guard' with too many orders, but it is entirely possible that some people have taken their finger off the pulse (due to economic problems etc) and the problem has been hidden further down the supply chain.
Although the tier 1 suppliers may get orders called off just a day earlier (or less), their suppliers (and their suppliers' suppliers) will have been producing these individual parts for a week or two beforehand. For a new model, the safe launch concept will do everything possible to mitigate supply/quality problems during a ramp-up, and the tier 1 suppliers will already be ordering much more than necessary to account for quality problems.
I don't think for one moment that LR miscalculated how many camera systems they needed....after all, they deleted the SE model in the UK to try and push orders more upmarket...
This to me, looks like something has just gone severaly wrong further down the supply chain....bear in mind that the suppliers will start working on the industrialisation of the project up to 2-3 years beforehand, with prototypes and first-off samples usually being produced up to 1 or 2 years before Start of Production.
I'm sure LR were ready for 2010 launch in July, but obviously somebody else wasn't and nobody spotted it in time 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
22nd Sep 2009 1:35 pm
rsk21
Member Since: 29 Jan 2007
Location: Northants
Posts: 162
Winger wrote:
Apart from the cameras, what about the large number of pre-production vehicles that were released into the dealer system without being checked to ensure that they all met "retail" standards, and had to be quarantined as a result....did anyone here buy one of those? What about the software issues that LR is already aware of, but for the moment is not in a position to do anything about, and is working on a fix? What about the 2,000 plus vehicles that may have an assembly fault, resulting in the vehicle entering "limp home" mode? And there's more......
Are these isuses documented anywhere on here ?
I have a D4 with cameras on order which I am assured has teh cameras and is due in this week. Should I be concerned ?
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22nd Sep 2009 4:44 pm
pko
Member Since: 06 Apr 2006
Location: usually in the pub
Posts: 398
limp home mode!
I collect mine tomorrow, can you explain the problem with limp home mode, & is there something the dealer can do for me tomorrow before I collect it to prevent this fault arising?
many thanks
Pnever drive faster than your guardian angel can fly
current motor RRsport hse
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22nd Sep 2009 5:04 pm
ad15
Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
Quote:
Also, why are people (ok - I mean ad15 ) assuming that LR buy these cameras? Nearly all parts are brought in as assemblies from the various suppliers - most of which have intermediate warehouses around the factory and produce the subassemblies in other plants.
paul, sorry it was late and i was not explaining my thoughts particularly well, you actually hit the nail on the head as far as what i was trying to say
also
Quote:
Although the tier 1 suppliers may get orders called off just a day earlier (or less), their suppliers (and their suppliers' suppliers) will have been producing these individual parts for a week or two beforehand. For a new model, the safe launch concept will do everything possible to mitigate supply/quality problems during a ramp-up, and the tier 1 suppliers will already be ordering much more than necessary to account for quality problems.
wasn't meaning LR "MAKE" the cameras. meant the suppliers, suppliers supplier as you so well put it above..
thankyou for making me clear... one wife.......livid
22nd Sep 2009 5:30 pm
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
Re: limp home mode!
pko wrote:
I collect mine tomorrow, can you explain the problem with limp home mode, & is there something the dealer can do for me tomorrow before I collect it to prevent this fault arising?
Make sure your dealer is aware of UPS (Update Prior to Sale) notice 3309-1, and that this issue does not affect your vehicle. It is VIN range specific, so can be easily checked and equally easily rectified. It relates to incorrect assembly of part of the air intake on the throttle body.
22nd Sep 2009 5:32 pm
Smarticus
Member Since: 01 Jan 2005
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 655
Rang my dealer today chasing the D4 that was supposed to be here last weekend. They now tell me that the vehicle has been retained by LR pending some re-work and they can't give me a new delivery date I suspect this may well be the problem Winger has highlighted - is there any more available on that ? I might cancel this order and wait until the teething troubles have been sorted out.Disco 4 TDV6HSE
Defender 200TDi CSW
RR Evoque
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d that it took the dealer what appears to be a WEEK to load your order......
| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) 
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) assuming that LR buy these cameras? Nearly all parts are brought in as assemblies from the various suppliers - most of which have intermediate warehouses around the factory and produce the subassemblies in other plants.
sorry it was late and i was not explaining my thoughts particularly well, you actually hit the nail on the head as far as what i was trying to say
I suspect this may well be the problem Winger has highlighted - is there any more available on that ? I might cancel this order and wait until the teething troubles have been sorted out.
