unclebob
Member Since: 06 Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 28
  
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| SUSPENSION, HILL DECENT AND ALL TERRAIN CONTROL FAILURES |
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THE PROBLEM IN SUMMARY (THE FULL ACCOUNT IS FURTHER DOWN)
THE VEHICLE SUFFERS SUSPENSION FAILURE AT INTERVALLS. These failures are usually accompanied by failures of the Hill Decent Control (HDC) system and the All Terrain Response (ATR) system. Multi BCM faults have also been recorded.
The first suspension failure was in Oct 2007 and the latest on 7 Jan 2008. The same fault has occurred no less than 8 times to date. The vehicle has been attended to by LRA on each occasion but the last (they refused to attend for the last failure because the vehicle was 1 month out of warranty and this despite a written assurance from my dealer that I would continue to receive support for this fault until it was rectified)
Each LRA attendance was followed by a visit to a main dealer for further checks or remedial works to be carried out. Clearly the fault remains and despite the best efforts of LRA and the Dealers they have not been able to correctly diagnose or rectify the fault. I do not believe that any of the remedies so far applied have made any difference and that clearing the fault codes simply serves to reactivate the systems until the fault breaks out again.
It is incredulous to me that assertions made by LRA and dealers regarding voltage changes arising from blown bulbs can be the true cause of these failures. Surely Land Rover could not have developed one of the best All Terrain Response control units available only for it to shut down together with the HDC and suspension systems simply because a “bulb has blownâ€. If it is true of my vehicle then clearly it is not fit for purpose and should be replaced.
I am particularly aggrieved by the situation given that the principle reason for purchasing this car was its extreme off road and weather safety capabilities. I have recently retired and intend to use the vehicle for skiing and long distance touring trips across Europe. The next long distance trip is planned for 27 Jan 2008 and it is imperative that the suspension and related systems are working and reliable as I shall be away for at least 11 months.
ACTION I BELIEVE IS REQUIRED TO BE TAKEN BY LANDROVER
I believe a thorough review and investigation is required to identify the cause of this recurring fault so that a permanent remedy can be applied. It is not sufficient to simply clear the fault codes and return the car hoping the pboblem has been cured. In the mean time I believe LR should provide recovery assistance via LRA and full warranty support via the dealer network in UK and Europe whilst the faults persist.
She goes in to the dealer tomorrow (Thursday 10 Jan 08) and if they tell me its because the o/s/f side light bulb has blown (which it has) I shall go ballistic.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEAS OR EXPERIENCE OF SIMILAR PROBLEMS PLEASE LET ME KNOW BECAUSE I AM AT MY WITS END WITH THIS ONE.
THE PROBLEMS IN DETAIL
FIRST FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
10 OCT 2007 Bristol
During a short drive around the Bristol area the suspension suddenly failed, the HDC system failure warning displayed and the ATR control unit shut down, these fault warnings were accompanied by a number of brake warning and other dash warning lights displayed. An LRA technician attended 11 Oct. The technician started by checking the brake lights were working correctly which they were. He then fiddled with the brake light switch at the brake pedal and the dash warning lights cleared, the ATR system lights came back on and the suspension system began to function correctly. The technician cleared the fault codes and advised that I attend a local dealer and have a replacement brake light fitted. This was carried out by Hunters of Bristol the next morning.
The vehicle was then fine until
SECOND FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
6 NOV 2007 McCarthy Way Finchampstead
The vehicle had been perfect the day before. On starting the system check very briefly displayed the error warning - HDC system inop - no other warning lights displayed, the ATR system lights stayed on but the system did not function.. The suspension system had also failed. LRA technician attended 6th Nov. The technician used the diagnostics device to interrogate the vehicle computer and found a number of fault codes which he recorded and then cleared. Unable to identify a specific reason for the suspension failure the technician applied a system software upgrade.
THIRD FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
7 NOV 2007 McCARTHY WAY FINCHAMPSTEAD
The vehicle had been perfect the day before. On starting the system check GAVE NO WARNING OF ANY FAULTS but on driving it was obvious the suspension had failed. I drove the vehicle to the local dealer that day and they carried out further diagnostics. They cleared the fault codes and recalibrated a level sensor. The vehicle was returned to me with the suspension working correctly.
FOURTH FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
25th NOV 2007 DEANSFORD GRANGE, HARVINGTON
The vehicle had been perfect the day before. On starting, the system check very briefly displayed the error warning - HDC system inop - no other warning lights displayed, the ATR system lights stayed on but the system did not function and the suspension had failed.. LRA technician attended 25th Nov. The technician used the diagnostics device to interrogate the vehicle computer and found a number of fault codes which he recorded and then cleared. A brake light bulb had failed and the technician said that this could cause the HDC/ATR and Suspension System to fail. I was incredulous at this but unable to identify a specific reason for the failures via the diagnostics tools the technician cleared all the faults and road tested the vehicle. Satisfied that all was ok he left.
FIFTH FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
26th NOV 2007 DEANS FORD GRANGE HARVINGTON
The vehicle had not been driven after the LRA tech had tested it the previous afternoon.
On starting, the system check very briefly displayed the error warning - HDC system inop - no other warning lights displayed and the ATR system lights stayed on but the system did not function and the suspension had failed. LRA technician attended 25th Nov. The technician used the diagnostics device to interrogate the vehicle computer and found a significant number of fault codes including BCM codes which he recorded and then cleared. None of the fault codes gave a clear cause or source for the fault. The Technician then decided that a possible cause might be the blue plug connector located beneath the nearside front wheel arch and proceeded to strip this out . He commented that these have been known to leak moisture into the electrics and hence could be why the systems kept failing. He cleaned it and the sprayed it with WD40. This may have been inspired guess work but it cannot have made much difference because he then repeated the process with a different connector located under the nearside rear wheel arch.
I was once again surprised and also dismayed to think that such a simple thing could cause most of the major safety functions of the vehicle to shut down . Unable to be certain that the work he had done had made any difference the technician cleared all the faults (accept those relating to the BCM) and road tested the vehicle. The technician also re-configured the ATR, Ride Level and Instrument Module as a belt and braces approach. Satisfied that all was ok he left. The technician advised that the vehicle go in to a dealer asap for further tests to the BCM
The vehicle was seen by the main dealer Lancaster’s Reading on 4th DEC 2007 They replaced the faulty blue connector as advised by the LRA technician and carried out further diagnostics to the BCM. Unable to find conclusive faults the vehicle was returned to me on 7th Dec 2007
SIXTH FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
25th DEC 2007 LES GETS FRANCE
The vehicle had been perfect the day before. On starting, the system check very briefly displayed the error warning - HDC system inop - no other warning lights displayed, the ATR system lights stayed on but the system did not function and the suspension had failed. The vehicle was at this time at an altitude of approx 2000m with temperatures of -7C and more snow and ice than could be safely tackled on such mountain roads without the full benefit of the HDC and ATR systems . I returned to the vehicle the next day only to find that the ATR/HDC and suspension faults had cleared and all was well. I drove the vehicle that day and whilst a number of other warning lights displayed including an airbag warning (which has come on and off variously since and is now on all the time) the suspension and ATR/HDC continued to work correctly.
SEVENTH FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
28th DEC 2007 LES GETS FRANCE
The problems of the 25th returned but then cleared again and the vehicle was fine until the 7th January
EIGHTH FAILURE OF SUSPENSION SYSTEM
7th JAN 2008 McCarthy Way Finchampstead
The vehicle had been perfect the day before having been driven some 700 miles back from France to the UK on the 5th Jan. On starting the system check GAVE NO WARNING OF ANY FAULTS but on driving it was obvious the suspension had failed. The HDC and ATR systems function correctly and no warning lights relating to these were displayed.
The vehicle will be collected by the local dealer Lancaster’s Reading on Thursday 10th Jan
I await their findings with interest.
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 9th Jan 2008 12:06 pm |
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andym
Member Since: 16 Jun 2005
Location: london
Posts: 211
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I had a similar problem. The car was two and a half years old and the suspension kept failing with warning lights galore.
It proved to be totally unreliable failing at the top of an Alp in France last year.
The dealers it was taken to clearly had no idea how to fix it.
You are clearly positioning for a fight and collating your facts.This is as you no doubt know becoming a full time and all consuming job and its like having a small child in the family.
They will not replace it. You have had some value out of it. However your best bet if possible is to save your sanity and part ex it. Landrover should be encouraged to help out. They said they would throw in 1,500 but I suspect there was more than this.
I finally part exchanged mine ( 54 SE) which was low mileage 13,000 MILES and in excellent condition although I had to contribute 7,000.
I feel I could have driven a harder bargain.
Its clearly not up to what you want to use it for and it will be at the back of your mind all the time if you take it abroad.
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| 9th Jan 2008 8:57 pm |
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unclebob
Member Since: 06 Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 28
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Many thanks for your story Andy. Part ex may be the only option but I plan to trry for a free extended warranty untill they do fix it. Will keep you posted.
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| 10th Jan 2008 11:23 am |
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MrH
Member Since: 08 Aug 2007
Location: lost in the forest
Posts: 7754
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I can't offer you any advise. Only similar thing we experienced was an Airbag/SRS warning light coming on and it was rectified by replacing the heater control unit 
Good Luck in getting it resolved. LRs are a fond memory, apart from the maintenance.
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| 10th Jan 2008 11:40 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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Blown brake lamps are known to cause suspension \ HDC faults as are any of the sensors...but your dealer should be able to sort them out. Change dealers is my advice  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 10th Jan 2008 11:47 am |
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unclebob
Member Since: 06 Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 28
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Hi DG
Thanks for your input.
I stiil cant get my head around how LR could have developed such safety features only to have them shut down because a bulb blows.
LRA did suggest bulbs could be the cause on a couple of occasions but they also thought it could be the switch or the blue plug connector or the saftware or the soft ware patches, when will they stop guessing and fix it???.
I think the process of clearing the stored fault codes actually had more bearing on "curing" these faults i.e they werent cures at all.
I have been doing a bit of digging and found a report on a site called www.usedcarexpert.co.uk
It had this to say about the D3 "If the car has any suspension problems, there are two common symptoms: Warning light displays on the dashboard and the suspension drops to the floor.
What it means (if you find this fault)
Faults with the suspension are usually due to wiring faults. Later cars should have modified wiring and wiring harnesses to reduce these problems".
This got me going and found a worrying site called www.landrover.haveyoursay.com which did little to bolster my confidence in LR customer care.
Spooked, I decided to call them today and after outling my problem sugested to them that the right thing to do was to extend to me a free warranty and LRA package until they put the car right.
They clearly thought I was mad.
After digging deeper I discovered that LRCC are not LR people at all but a outsourced call centre.
I then tried LR Car Care the extended warranty people. Having enquired abiut the best package we got to the nitty gritty and I discovered that the warranty only covers the car for up to a maximum of 31 days per trip to europe ( reminded them that we were in europe but that just get them confused) in a single trip and the total cover is for 90 days or three 30 day trips. No point buying that then.
Finally I called Land Rover Assistance, surprise surprise this is yet another outsourced outfit. They told me the package would be pointless for me because it is similarly restricted to 90 days maximum in 3x30 day blocks when in Europe
Lancaster LR have just called me (3.30 pm) to say they havent been able to trace the fault and want to keep the car another day. What choice do I have?
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| 10th Jan 2008 5:34 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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There are very few occasions on here that you will find the wiring loom being responsible for multiple and repetitive Sus\HDC\TR faults. 99 times out of a hundred occasions I have seen it has been due to faulty sensors or brake lamps.
The major issues related to suspension failiures that you might read about elswhere were caused by suspension compressor faults. This issue was overcome in the main by enhancements to the vehicle software in mid 2006. It is worth checking your vehicles history to ensure that all appropriate software updates were applied at that time.
Do a search through this site for legitimate reporting of such issues and how they were resolved. If you read the likes of haveyoursay then you will become just as bitter and twisted as that chap instead of focussing on a resolution 
I'm sure that some others will be along to give you further guidance on the subject shortly. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 10th Jan 2008 5:53 pm |
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unclebob
Member Since: 06 Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 28
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Thanks DG. I really appreciate your positive thinking. I will admit to getting a bit depressed about it so will take your advice. Incidentaly the main dealer is currently do a software and patch inventory to see if anything was missed so that ties in with your experience.
Best Bob
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| 10th Jan 2008 6:28 pm |
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wavey66
Member Since: 25 May 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 158
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I'm with DG on this. I have a TDV6 S on a 55 plate, I've had the vehicle for 8 trouble free months. Just before xmas the wife was pulled over by the police as both rear light bulbs had gone. I checked the car out and noticed that the suspension height was different at the back the car went into extended mode when ever she stopped . The next day we had the warning lights appear after a few miles drive and then the suspension collapsed. The full story is here
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/post243111.html#243111
In the short period between the bulbs blowing and the suspension failing fully the car was doing showing the suspension warnings and raising into extended mode for no reason. The left rear sensor was found to be faulty.
I'd get someone on here to recommend a good dealer for you - even if it's a long drive and get it sorted properly
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| 10th Jan 2008 6:47 pm |
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unclebob
Member Since: 06 Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 28
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Hi wavey66
Are you not astonished that a brake bulb can shut down these three key features??? I would not have purchased the D3 had I known of this nonsensicle failing in design. Also I am still left wondering why the last 4/5 failures occured and yet the brake bulbs were all fine/working??
Surely the vehicle cannot be considered fit for purpose given that its key safety features shut down like that.
Perhaps it would be a little easier to take if the car had a bulb failure warning system/display. Even more acceptable would be if it restored itsself when a replacement bulb was fitted (with out the need to go to a dealer for the diagnostics to clear the fault codes)
The latest failure on mine was xmas day, we were in the french alps and needed to drive 20 miles or so to friends for the big lunch. You can imagine the family were not impressed when I told them the car was on the blink again. We made it to our friends but it was not a pleasent drive. We had no choice but to leave it there overnight (no way was I going down the mountain with the systems and suspension shut down). When I went to collect it on boxing day I was astounded to find that everything was working correctly. I drove back to our chalet with no trouble (had a great time driving on snow and ice down windy mountain road) Three days later its all shut down again and we had a few difficult days before suddenly it all cleared. Luky for us it stayed ok till we completed the 650 miles or so journey back home. The very next morning its all gone pete tong again and has stayed that way todate.
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| 10th Jan 2008 7:25 pm |
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wavey66
Member Since: 25 May 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 158
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I am amazed that a car this technically advanced has a problem like this. The way the LRA technician explained it was that as the suspension ( i guess sensor ) develops a fault it sends electrical spikes through the systems and the bulbs can get blown.
So if this is believed then the bulbs are a symptom rather than a cause.
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| 11th Jan 2008 8:13 am |
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unclebob
Member Since: 06 Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 28
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The dealer (Lancaster Reading) delivered the car back on Friday afternoon. The result of 2 days of investigation was that the air bag light fault was down to a faulty offside/front crash sensor.
They believed the Suspension/HDC/ATR faults were down to a fault in the EAS wiring harness (I have yet to find out what/where this is) which they replaced. Only time will tell if thats the end of the problem or not.
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| 12th Jan 2008 1:39 pm |
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Flint
Member Since: 03 Oct 2007
Location: Co. Wicklow
Posts: 22
 
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Hi just before christmas my disco started showing suspension faults which went from amber to red and it went down on its bump stops. Mechanics said it could be that the system was not upgraded and that the compresser also needed a part upgraded. Collected it today, drove it home (bout a half hour) was turning it in our drive way when bing bong suspension fault (amber). Tried the usual turn off engine & start again. The fault disappeared. I continued with my turning and it reappeared  . So had to go on a short drive and in the course of 3 miles the fault reappeared at least 6 times in red. Got home,tried to work the air suspension to get it up and it went into extended mode on the front, got it out of that and then it went into extended mode only on the front left and then a parking brake fault. When I would go to engage the brake, it would sound like a pneumatic drill from the back of the jeep and the computer was dinging. Has anyone had this park brake "sound". Plus any other ideas about the suspension faults or is the usual suspects?.
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| 12th Jan 2008 11:57 pm |
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unclebob
Member Since: 06 Oct 2007
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 28
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Hi Flint
Your problems sound rather different to mine. Clearly its going to need to visit a dealer for testing/diagnosis. My instinct is that a height sensor has failed but with so many failings recorded on the suspension it could be just about anything. I would very much like to hear back from you when you do get it checked out. My dealer told me that Land Rover had acknowledged a lot of faults in the early models arising from wiring harnesses which is why they agreed to replace a harness on mine. Also have you recorded your problem on the forum suspension suryey. Good Luck
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| 13th Jan 2008 11:49 am |
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Flint
Member Since: 03 Oct 2007
Location: Co. Wicklow
Posts: 22
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Started her up this morning and the computer was saying nothing but I know if I go anywhere it will start again. I'll let you know what happens.
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| 13th Jan 2008 12:27 pm |
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