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Problem voltage BUS can system
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stevethedent
 


Member Since: 25 Jan 2012
Location: Manchester
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 

Am I the only one getting a head freeze reading this thread!!!!!!!!! Shocked
I have only just recently found the fusebox LOL
  
Post #11658561st Oct 2013 10:03 pm
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Cellerdweller
 


Member Since: 05 Oct 2012
Location: Macclesfield
Posts: 1315

England 

Stevethedent
I know it gets the old grey matter fired up doesn't it ?
 You're not afraid of the dark are you ?  
Post #11658751st Oct 2013 10:44 pm
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Phifross
 


Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Nigeria 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Lux Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3
Still need help and support

Oh some brains are burning ?


I'm happy, also I'm not the only one ? Very Happy
I thought I was the oly to be slow to understand.... good !!!

By the way, someone has found the way to measure and detect a faulty module ?
I mean, is it possible to someone to explain me well how to measure the voltage to a module when it is connected ?

Thank you in advance for your precious help.

I was also thinking, but I don't know.... instead of trying to measure the voltage of a connceted module, when the battery is disconnected, I can try to measure the resistance of the CAN bus...
I explaine, I measure the CAN bus resistance through the OBD II and I remove a module and see if the resistance is back to normal (60 Ohm).
The only problem, it will not work for the ABS module and for the Instrument Cluster.... but I think it will work for the others module.
Am I right ? Of course too, I need to have a wrong resistance when I start the work (120 Ohm)

please also, can someone tell me where is the ABS module, I know it is somewhere under the carpet, but I don't know where. I have already removed the two front seats and the central console... I have try to dig under the carpet, but no ABS module until now....

Dear Stevehedent, I really hope for your that you will never this kind of problem, it's really not easy to solve it.... Big Cry
You have seen the number of fuses.... and the LR3 doesn't have onyl one fuse box, but three, just in case Shocked

Please keep in touch with me... don't forget I'm living in Liberia !!! and just know no electricity.... again.... why I have a LR3 full of probem here ??? Big Cry Big Cry Big Cry
  
Post #11669613rd Oct 2013 10:10 pm
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anglefire
 


Member Since: 09 Mar 2010
Location: In the Club House
Posts: 4180

England 

Philfross,

That won't work.

I'll try and explain.

There is a comms line that is wired as a daisy chain between all your modules. Normally the last one at each end has a terminating resistor of 120 Ohm. So as they are in parallel, one at each end, the resulting measured resistance at any point along the network will be 60 ohms.

So by disconnecting modules when you have a fault - i.e can see 120 ohms, nothing will change.

So, my thinking is, when you have a fault, you need to measure the resistance at a convenient point (ODBC point for example) and then at each module add the termination resistor at each module on the network. When the resistance doesn't change, you have a break in the comms between that point at where you are measuring. Obviously, you need to follow the network back to the point which it returns to determine between which modules it is between.
 Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500

_________________________________________________
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Post #11669954th Oct 2013 5:50 am
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Phifross
 


Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Nigeria 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Lux Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3
How to add a termination resistor to a module ?

Thank you Angelfire,


Here what you wrote:

you need to measure the resistance at a convenient point (ODBC point for example) and then at each module add the termination resistor at each module on the network. When the resistance doesn't change, you have a break in the comms between that point at where you are measuring. Obviously, you need to follow the network back to the point which it returns to determine between which modules it is between.

Ok to measure the resistance at the OBDII
But how to add the termination resistor at each module on the network ?
First, what is a termination resistor ?
And I'm so sorry, but your last sentence is quit confused for me....

Obviously, you need to follow the network back to the point which it returns to determine between which modules it is between

Really sorry to don't understand that....

Can you please explain me again, maybe more in detail how to that ?
I really need details.... imagine that I'm alone and no help and I'm not an electrician...

I have a list of the modules connected to the HS CAN bus, that's ok, the starting point is the Instrument cluster and the last point is the ABS module (I still don't know where it is located... Whistle )

Thank you so much in advance for your support !!!
  
Post #11674904th Oct 2013 11:44 pm
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Phifross
 


Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Nigeria 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Lux Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3
Problem solved

Also finally it was the connection behind the instrument cluster.
I had to put something to make the connector attached to instrument cluster more stable.

It's working, so good.

Thank you to everyone !!!
  
Post #11699609th Oct 2013 7:33 pm
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Cellerdweller
 


Member Since: 05 Oct 2012
Location: Macclesfield
Posts: 1315

England 

Well done that man Thumbs Up
 You're not afraid of the dark are you ?  
Post #11699799th Oct 2013 8:09 pm
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Robbie
 


Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 4

I admire persistence!

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Post #11699969th Oct 2013 8:47 pm
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2929twin
 


Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: by cheque book
Posts: 174

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

I didn`t understand that either, but I am impressed by your determination. Obviously more difficult if English not your first language. Well done!
  
Post #11700099th Oct 2013 9:07 pm
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Dutchrockboy
 


Member Since: 16 Apr 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 85

Germany 2014 LR4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyLR4
Re: Problem solved

Phifross wrote:
Also finally it was the connection behind the instrument cluster.
I had to put something to make the connector attached to instrument cluster more stable.

It's working, so good.

Thank you to everyone !!!


Hi People,

i am having the same problems after they build in a new engine (lifting the body up, disconnecting several connections).

Looking back on the cause of the problem, can one test this without removing the cluster?

Regards from Germany.

Robbie
  
Post #18540214th Sep 2017 1:03 pm
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Phifross
 


Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Nigeria 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Lux Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Dear Dutchrockboy,


You will see, it is not too hard to remove the instrument cluster, don't worry.
It takes not more than 30minutes. For, me I need only 10minutes, but it is because of practice Laughing but I can't say I'm very happy to have this kind of practice Rolling Eyes

When you have remove the cluster, you will see a plug on the bottom right. Try to move a it a little.
If the problem is from this plug, Chritmas Tree cluster will go on and off as you touch the plug.

For me, I had to put somehting like a small rubber below the plug to stabilize it. Before to put the cluster in place, please move it again to be sure that what you put is enough....

I don't think, from my little knowledge, that only by testing you will be able to find where the problem is. As you read, you have seen that the Electronic design of the LR3 is strange and disturbing... very sorry about it.

I hope the problem is from the cluster, that would be simple to fix it. No need to change the cluster too, it is expansive and to it by yourselves it is a little complicated....

If the problem is not from the cluster, really sorry !!!!! But anyway we are here to help you !!! I have suffered enought to feel sorry for others.


Also, if you need I'm selling my MSV-2 from Blackbox, it is a very good tool that helped me a lot !!!! But I'm not using it anymore because I have sold the car. Also if you are interested, don't hesitate to contact me.

Please, don't hesitate to contact us for any question !!!

Cheer up !!!

Best regards.

Philippe
  
Post #18540534th Sep 2017 2:56 pm
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Dutchrockboy
 


Member Since: 16 Apr 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 85

Germany 2014 LR4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyLR4

Hi Phillipe,

thankx for your Reply.
I have the IID tool and are very happy with it.
Seems like the people who put in my new engine know a lot about putting in new engines.
But they don´t know a lot (or maybe not enough, but who does?) about the electrical stuff.
The symptoms were of the defective cluster. So my Friendly Helper thought it was the cluster.
Now he says the the cluster is OK. But there seems to be water in the Fuse box.
While waiting for the rapair the cas has apparantly been in the rain and the frontinner stuff was allready taken out. So that might be the caus of electrical mishappenings.
Can that be?
I do not want to discuss the Who is responsible issue. I need to know where to search and i need solutions.
The car is not next to me (150 km away) so it is hard to check the stuff peolpe say on the phone is right.

I love this Forum. I Really like helping people and i like the helpfull people.
  
Post #18541534th Sep 2017 7:22 pm
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Phifross
 


Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Nigeria 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Lux Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Oh you are far from the car.... That is not easy....

Yes the problem can come from the fuse box... but about which one are you talking about when you say it has water ?
The one in the engine, the other one inside on the passager side, behind the box or the one at the back of the car in the trunk ?

I imagine you are talking about the one in the engine.

Are you sure you friend is talking about the fuse box, or he is talking about the ECU boxes ? Because the ECU is placed in a way that it can receive water easely.... it not really the case for the fuse box, it has a plastic cover that protect the fuses well.

Can you explain well in detail the symptom your car has please ?
warning about hot engine or not car ? Able to start the car or not ? More we have details, more we will be able to help you.... sorry I know sometimes it is a little boring to write down all these things...

Sorry for the problem and thank you for feedback.

Philippe
  
Post #18546085th Sep 2017 11:17 pm
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Dutchrockboy
 


Member Since: 16 Apr 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 85

Germany 2014 LR4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyLR4

Hi Philippe,

the symptoms were the same of that of a faulty cluster :
Cluster showed funny stuff, flashlights were flashing on the outside (not on the cluster), Gear would not go in sport or manual mode, Display said: shutting down.
But Engine and suspension funktioned. After stopping the car, it didn´t start again. Waited 15 minutes, started again. Stopped, did not start again.
The Guy who put in the new engine suspected a faulty cluster. I suspectede they had forgotten a Connection whilst lifting the body. They doublechecked all connections that had to be disconnected lifting the body and replacing the engine .
Then they called and said the cluster was allright, they found water here:



I can´t see water on the photo.

The guy who put in an new engine does 5 LR Engineswaps a week. They do know the trick, but they are not an expert on Electrical problems.

Whilst waiting for repair we had some heavy rain and some plastic components in the front of the bonnet were removed.
Will it just be a case of drying everything up and all is well........?
  
Post #18546276th Sep 2017 6:07 am
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Dutchrockboy
 


Member Since: 16 Apr 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 85

Germany 2014 LR4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyLR4

I finally got my car back round the house.
Now i can start the search.

The Problem:
- it begins locking the doors 2 or 3 times
- Navi, Radio and Ventilation are dead
- car blinks hazard outside (not inside)
- Sometimes it says "shutting down"
As this problems appear:
- i can not signal left or right
- the cluster is not giving all information
- i can not start when i turn of the engine.
- i can drive normaly, no Limp Mode, no lowering.

Sometimes it funktions again, all is well then.

I read the problems with an IID Tool.

First fault: IId says "no connection with medium Speed Can"


here the faults it read:

Body Control
• B1C35-3A (2F) Steering column telescope feedback signal - Frequency modulation/pulse width modulation failure - incorrect, has too many pulses
( on 10-09-2017 10:51:16 at 224956 km )
Parking Aid
• U0300-55 (2F) Internal control module software incompatibility - System programming failure - is not configured
Parking Brake
• C1A55-64 (EB) Ignition switch input circuit - Algorithm based failure - signal plausibility failure
( on 10-09-2017 11:23:38 at 225008 km )
Steering Angle
• U0122-87 (2F) Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 10-09-2017 11:23:33 at 225008 km )
Transfer Case
• U0155-87 (2F) Lost communication with instrument cluster control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 10-09-2017 11:23:33 at 225008 km )
Transmission
• U0155-87 (2F) Lost communication with instrument cluster control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 10-09-2017 10:08:44 at 224882 km )
Vehicle Dynamic
• U0155-87 (2B) Lost communication with instrument cluster control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 10-09-2017 11:23:53 at 225008 km )

Here are the Queastions:

Where do i start?

There is a new engine built in:
- can there be a bad connection, after lifting the body that is causing this problem?
- does the car need reprogramming after putting in a new Engine, or is ist just Plug and Play?


My SHMBO needs the car, and i need the things she does when her car is working wel....

Help me please!
  
Post #185597310th Sep 2017 1:31 pm
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