Member Since: 29 Oct 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2330
Waterbouy
Very informative... and interesting ....
So if someone maybe looking for a replacemnet D3 (don't know yet but waiting to find out ) I was airing towards an auto ....
Flushing is an important thing to verify then ???
And dont laugh can this 'part' be changed
...accept that the transmission would have to be lifted out etc etc or is it that basically its a time bomb waiting to happen ....
So an older lower mileage auto becomes a better option when looking to purchase .....
8th Mar 2014 8:51 pm
waterbuoy
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2862
Bob
I suspect that, once/if this becomes a more prevalent issue, then ready 'fixes' will become available. In the meantime a second hand gearbox may be more straightforward. I have to admit that as I had taken out the maximum possible extended warranty (which has now paid for itself) I did not fully explore this option. For example, is (say) a 2004 box a straight substitution into a 2009 model?
So far as I am aware the stator lies within the Torque Convertor - I would have thought that if it was only the stator bush which was actually failing then they would have just replaced the TC rather than the whole gearbox. In reality, I think that the premature wearing of the stator bush is causing issues elsewhere within the box, hence the decision to replace the wholeunit. However, this may be complete boll**ks - and simply be because it is what LR have negotiated/agreed with ZF.
As I stated in the original post I am no techie, but have merely researched enough to help myself and, hopefully, others.Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
TC's are easy to replace - and not expensive (Well, could be worse I guess) about £1k fitted. But I would have the whole thing stripped and checked whilst it was out and anything replaced that needed replacing - something like £2-2.5K unless the megatronic unit needs replacing, which is the expensive bit I believe. But even then, nothing like an engine Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
_________________________________________________
Disco Picture Website Here
8th Mar 2014 10:12 pm
Bobs
Member Since: 29 Oct 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2330
Wow ....
8th Mar 2014 10:15 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Just found this on Topix for the 8 speed
Quote:
Description.............................Intervals
Normal maintenance..............Filled for life.
Severe duty maintenance......Change the fluid at 48,000 km (30,000 miles) intervals.
Quote:
The ZF 8HP70 transmission has the following features:
Designed to be maintenance free
Transmission fluid is 'fill for life'
.........
I can't believe that LR just decide this for themselves flying in the face of what ZF recommend under their warranty as it would mean that ZF would wash their hands of any claims from LR. ...odd 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Mar 2014 2:42 pm
waterbuoy
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2862
Thanks DG
I doubt that there are that many 'component' specification differences between the 8 and 6 speed boxes, in which case the 'severe duty maintenance' cycle of 30,000 miles would seem to support what both Robbie and I (as well as others) have said about the frequency of changing the fluid.
Edit: The fact that LR seem to indicate that replacing the fluid at 30,000 miles is recommended when the vehicle is subject to 'severe duty' removes my previous concerns regarding a pre-emptive flush (so to speak). It would also appear to be good news for both Geoff and D-M; I was concerned that my post might adversely affect their business but now think it will probably increase the demand for their services.Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
9th Mar 2014 2:50 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20731
30k is a bit extreme, unless you are towing a lot of the time, or lots of slow speed/off road use
So far, I have done 5 flushes, all 6 speed boxes
2 @ 50k-ish miles
2 @ 80k-ish miles
1@ 120k miles
Those at 50-80k, while the oil was discoloured, still seemed to flow OK.
The one at 120k, the oil was much thicker, and a lot darker, and the car did have a judder.
IMHO, the oil needs flushed at 50-60k miles, before any damage to the box has occuredMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Yep, the consensus amongst the ZF gearbox gurus is about 60k+ for dialysis.
In terms of looking after your gearbox a single fill at 30k and then again at 60k achieves much the same thing if you fancy doing it that way (clearly the process is quite different, given the oil trapped in the TC in a normal oil service). For most forum members going direct to a dialysis flush is probably their best remaining option, but for those with lower milage younger vehicles changing the half the oil early and often is still a very good option.
Clearly my D4 8-speed will have its first gearbox oil service (single flush) at 30k or so. With 2 extra gears in the same sized package I am sure the stresses on some components has not got better.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Sorry Rob but this guess work worries me big time 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Mar 2014 9:56 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Changing half the oil is not guesswork. Following the OEM is not guesswork either and it is all voluntary activity.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
So you would seriously change your own box oil while still in warranty On the basis of how many failures ? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Mar 2014 10:08 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
I did on my D3 and kept the vehicle for nearly 8 years.
The gearbox will not fail inside of the warranty period due to the LR service schedule. But it can fail outside of the warranty period due to bad oil. This can be avoided by servicing the box in accordance with ZF's recommendations.
We are only talking about an oil change, not heart surgery. If any work is done on the box in the warranty period they have to replace the oil anyway.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Fair play ....I guess I will never keep mine beyond 3 \ 4 years ...so it won't be my problem ...but for clarity to those that might is there a copy of ZF's recommendations available ?21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Mar 2014 10:21 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Found it
Quote:
ZF automatic transmissions are filled with specially developed oils. At very high operating temperatures, the oil ages faster than under normal conditions. Depending on the driving style (e.g., many trips at high speeds or sporty driving), ZF recommends a transmission oil change every 80 000 to 12 000 km, or after 8 years at the latest.
Member Since: 01 Jan 2014
Location: hampshire
Posts: 340
I used my d2 for heavy towing and all box oils were changed at 25 k and we never had problems the engine oil was done every 6k and props at 6k. Oil is cheap and its not a long job unless you are clock watching in the toilet at a main dealer.D4
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can this 'part' be changed 
Wow ....
