Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The opinion of those that built the gearbox but note that they also encourage an earlier oil change for large 'SUVs' (I hate that term!):
ZF Transmissions wrote:
ZF AUTOMATIC CAR TRANSMISSIONS
The case for oil servicing and the use of approved oil and filters
The oil is supposed to be lifetime fill – why change it?
ï¶ The oil in a modern automatic transmission is a highly engineered component as it serves many functions including lubrication, cooling, hydraulic application of clutches and power transmission via the torque converter.
ï¶ Modern transmissions utilise overlapping application of clutch packs at gear changes (instead of freewheels) and controlled slip of the torque converter lock up clutch which puts greater stresses on the oil.
ï¶ To meet these challenges partially synthetic oils have been developed for ZF 5, 6 and 8 speed transmissions which are maintenance free under normal operating conditions. However, as some degradation of the oil inevitably occurs over time and usage, ZF recommends oil and filter changes after 50,000 to 75,000 miles to ensure optimum performance.
ï¶ Oil degradation can lead to complaints such as judder, noises and a deterioration in gear change quality.
ï¶ Some car manufacturers already recommend oil servicing at 60,000 miles and others are starting to put greater emphasis on the technical benefits rather than ‘cost of ownership’.
When it comes to gearbox warranty work Land Rover are not dumb - everything starts with a double flush, so they do recognise that problems can be cured with nothing more technical than fresh oil. As with everything mechanical, prevention is better than the cure.
The Land Rover gearbox fault-finding guide (albeit a little out of date):
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Found it ta ...though how does this advice fair with LR's warranty 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Mar 2014 11:01 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
I think LR will give you a stiff ignoring if your gearbox fails outside of warranty, even if the failure was attributable to the daft service schedule. You could try to fight them, but it would not be easy.
Change early, change often.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2862
DG
Surely, with regard to changing the fluid within the LR warranty period, tthe extract that you put up earlier from Topix would remove any potential concerns about invalidating the warranty? If LR themselves are recommending that the fluid is changed at 30k for heavy use vehicles then that surely justifies a change earlier than that recommended in the 'standard' service schedule?
Anyhow, I was wanting to say that with regard to my most recent post ref intervals following your earlier post, I was merely trying to say that I think the interval should be less than that currently quoted as standard by LR, not specifically the 30k (although given my experiences I will probably be doing it at close to 30k!).
Goodnight all. Hopefully I'll get my vehicle back tomorrow after the brake failure has been sorted Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
9th Mar 2014 11:31 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Quote:
Surely, with regard to changing the fluid within the LR warranty period, tthe extract that you put up earlier from Topix would remove any potential concerns about invalidating the warranty? If LR themselves are recommending that the fluid is changed at 30k for heavy use vehicles then that surely justifies a change earlier than that recommended in the 'standard' service schedule?
I don't necessarily disagree but then I don't stipulate the terms of the warranty. Maybe LRCS can clarify ?21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Mar 2014 11:42 pm
waterbuoy
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2862
Maybe, but I'd rather the warranty funds for my new gearbox have cleared through the dealers account first
Similarly though, the LR gearbox fault finding guide which Robbie posted earlier gives the double flush as the first option, followed by a hard reset.Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
9th Mar 2014 11:48 pm
gensetsteve
Member Since: 01 Jan 2014
Location: hampshire
Posts: 340
I think Landrover are under pressure to make servicing in the first 3 years look cheap. If a potential customer asks for a quote for proper servicing at £120 an hour they would run a mile. At the average of 12k a year a 3 year old truck will only have 36k on it. Talking to dealers a 4 year old vehicle in their eyes is scrap. If you are never going to see a vehicle with 100k in your workshop its not a problem. They make better profit sucking the oil up a tube and charging £400.D4
10th Mar 2014 1:10 am
waterbuoy
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2862
Original post has now been updated with indicative prices of replacement gearboxes from Advanced FactorsCurrently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
10th Mar 2014 1:34 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Video of a gearbox megaflush / dialysis in action to give you an idea of what it does:
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 29 Jan 2008
Location: Zalesie
Posts: 289
the black fluid coming out is scary
Is it better to change the filter before this kind of dialysis or rather after it ?2013 D4 TDV6 S; Baltic Blue; IID Tool BT
2007 D3 TDV6 SE, Auto; club Faultmate MSV2
17th Mar 2014 9:28 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20731
If you change the filter beforehand, you will still be mixing new oil with old as you refill the box, before the flush
If you change it afterwards, you are draining out perfectly good oilMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 29 Jan 2008
Location: Zalesie
Posts: 289
Thanks - I assume the "new" drained oil can then be reused after the new filter is fitted.2013 D4 TDV6 S; Baltic Blue; IID Tool BT
2007 D3 TDV6 SE, Auto; club Faultmate MSV2
17th Mar 2014 3:45 pm
fakesnake
Member Since: 30 Mar 2006
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 281
So in a nutshell the concensus is flush at around 60K -am I right?
-Just found out my D4 6sp is in the VIN range and I'm at 45K nowRichard
18th Mar 2014 9:25 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20731
The oil starts degrading at around 60k miles or so, so you want it flushed before it reaches that mileage My D3 Build Thread
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