Member Since: 16 Jun 2009
Location: SE London/Kent
Posts: 295
Do they look at the tow bar on an MOT?
8th Aug 2014 3:17 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26705
If its fitted, yes I think they do. If it has 13 pin electrics, they test them, but not if it has the old 9 pin. How weird is that!
Just towed my caravan back to storage with my newly serviced and oiled bracket with no problem Although, I did note that the green handle did turn towards the lock position about 30 degrees as I lifted the nose weight off the bracket when I decoupled.
This confirms my theory that the locking pawl gets pushed back into the bracket, turning the handle in the process, as the caravan presses down on the bracket.
Later brackets seem to have a ratchet mechanism on the back of the handle to prevent this.
8th Aug 2014 3:32 pm
gensetsteve
Member Since: 01 Jan 2014
Location: hampshire
Posts: 340
DG wrote:
Out of interest can anyone get me any alternative stats of road deaths caused by any trailer detachments for any car since 2007 .... I can find reports for 1 person and it was in 2007.
MOT towbar failures on all cars are consistently below .01% since 2009
MOT failures for car brakes on the other hand have been averagely 11%
What shall we worry more about eh??
Still, a little hysteria never hurt anyone eh
They have only been testing towbars for the last year and there is very little to fail on your average towbar. Lots of moving parts in a brake system to fail and wear out. What worries me more deficient brakes or a tow bar that falls out. The towbar as its completely avoidable and results can be awful.D4
8th Aug 2014 3:49 pm
gensetsteve
Member Since: 01 Jan 2014
Location: hampshire
Posts: 340
Deanicuss wrote:
I think once I buy one I will be fitting a fixed tow bar after reading some of the horror stories, although a lot is probably down to user error.
User error does not come in to it. Its a rubbish idea. If you are going to take a halfords trailer down the tip stick with it anything else get a proper fixed bar.D4
8th Aug 2014 3:52 pm
WOODY179
Member Since: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 3637
Have you seen any evidence to make a statement of that kind, if so can we see it too I have seen a D3 driving along with the key still visible in the tow bar - is that not user error or do you class that as LR's fault as well?
8th Aug 2014 3:58 pm
gensetsteve
Member Since: 01 Jan 2014
Location: hampshire
Posts: 340
I base my experience on my hook which I could not unlock due to corrosion in the lock. But at the same time could not tell if it was locked or not and with some movement of the green lever could make it both loose and tight. Drilled the lock off and dumped it in the skip. I can imagine the idea looked ok on the drawing board.D4
I'm only too familiar with the sight of an upside down trailer and I'm glad to hear that both horses were OK.
When I bought my first D3 the idea of a removable tow bar was completely alien to me so I went for the fixed option. Having made the same decision again, fortunately, I don't have to worry. I still decided to give my tow bar a good greasing anyway.
While at Gatcombe Horse Trials last weekend, I had a look around and saw loads of removable tow bars all left in, a thief's paradise too.
It may be more safety critical but, sadly, it's not the only place where good maintenance is not emphasised enough. That seems to be the key to successful D3 ownership in many areas.Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
8th Aug 2014 4:22 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
WOODY179 wrote:
Have you seen any evidence to make a statement of that kind, if so can we see it too I have seen a D3 driving along with the key still visible in the tow bar - is that not user error or do you class that as LR's fault as well?
The key is only to stop it being stolen, it shouldn't affect whether it stays in if is was inserted properly
8th Aug 2014 4:32 pm
smaskins
Member Since: 16 Jun 2009
Location: SE London/Kent
Posts: 295
Should it not be part of a "service" at least when done at a franchise dealership?
8th Aug 2014 4:33 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hi countrywide,
I think you are mistaken as the key does little to prevent theft but is designed to be an indicator of correctly installed bar and when installed fully it prevents the lock from being pushed back.
Well, that is what it is supposed to do.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50937
gensetsteve wrote:
They have only been testing towbars for the last year
Since 27th April 2009 ..so that's 5 years 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
8th Aug 2014 4:40 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Robbie wrote:
Hi countrywide,
I think you are mistaken as the key does little to prevent theft but is designed to be an indicator of correctly installed bar and when installed fully it prevents the lock from being pushed back.
Well, that is what it is supposed to do.
It isn't, it's a anti theft lock, the pin still goes back without it being locked. The lock is to stop you fully turning the mechanism to remove it. It might help to indicate the position, but that is not what it is for, not being locked (as in key turned) also doesn't mean it's not fitted properly.
8th Aug 2014 4:45 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26705
On mine I can still partly turn the green handle even with the key removed. There is a small plastic stop on the red ring behind the green handle that stops it going to the full release position when the key is removed. If the key was left in, in the unlock position it could go further and the bar could detach.
This is worrying because the weight of a trailer pressing down on the locking pawl can push it back, because it is angled to slide inwards under pressure. If you look at my previous picture, you can see a polished area on the pawl which is caused by the constant pushing in and out under the constant load-on load-off situation a trailer or caravan will exert on the bracket.
I think the later design has a ratchet behind the handle to stop this. I have been trying to see if I can buy a new red locking ring to see if it has the ratchet teeth on it?
Anyone with a new bracket fancy removing their green handle to see what's behind?
8th Aug 2014 6:25 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26705
Discoed wrote:
When I fit my tow-bar it is tight and there is no movement however once I heave on it I suspect the locking pin starts to 'walk' back into the hitch. This is consistent with your findings. I am going top oil my pin and the socket and see if this reduced friction leads to less 'walking'
The pin should really lock out at it's full extent
**update**
if its fitted and waggled it quickly loosens however you can eradicate this play by rotation the green handle clockwise - turn upwards towards the bumper as far as it will go - the hitch then tightens as the pin re engages with the hole and then it seems far less likely to work loose again. Can anyone else repeat this observation?
I have done this several times now and really given the removable some stick with a bar type stabiliser attached and it no longer works loose despite my best efforts with a lot of leverage!
This happens to mine too.
8th Aug 2014 6:27 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Gareth wrote:
On mine I can still partly turn the green handle even with the key removed. There is a small plastic stop on the red ring behind the green handle that stops it going to the full release position when the key is removed. If the key was left in, in the unlock position it could go further and the bar could detach.
This is worrying because the weight of a trailer pressing down on the locking pawl can push it back, because it is angled to slide inwards under pressure. If you look at my previous picture, you can see a polished area on the pawl which is caused by the constant pushing in and out under the constant load-on load-off situation a trailer or caravan will exert on the bracket.
The movement with or without the key is the same on the locking pawl on the older version, the bit that releases it is the pull outwards of the handle and then twist. This is the only thing which the key locks, being able to pull out the handle to release. I can't see how this could happen with the weight of the trailer as it has to be pulled out, the rest of the movement on the locking pawl is the same locked or unlocked.
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