Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
EAS problems remain after rebuilding compressor
Hi guys,
After getting suspension faults because the air reservoir wasn't filling quickly enough I rebuilt the compressor - new piston seal, new valve plug and spring and replaced the silica gel and filters.
Unfortunately I am still getting the same fault. Very occasionally it will do a 5 minute trip without faulting, but more often than not the fault is flagged after running for less than a minute.
Even while the compressor was out of the car for about two months the suspension height remained at normal height, I don't know whether this indicates anything.
Any suggestions as to what I should check now?
25th Jan 2015 4:37 am
caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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25th Jan 2015 8:37 am
nivekau
Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
Hi guys,
Firstly sorry about abandoning this thread, I had some family health issues which forced me to put everything on hold
Just resumed working on the problem.
In answer to your question, caverD3, the faults were;
V0132 - lost communication with ride level control
C1A20 - pressure increases too slowly when filling reservoir
V0814 - lost communication with audio unit (but I have an aftermarket hifi fitted which explains this one)
I had the EAS fuse removed for quite a while and had been driving the car, but eventually the suspension sank so I installed the fuse again, but then started seeing a different fault;
C1131 - air supply. This would fault within 15 seconds of starting the engine.
No other faults being registered.
I removed the compressor again and tested it on the bench. The air output was weak and I discovered that air drier unit cap was leaking. I removed the cap and could not find any cracks. It seemed that the cap just wasn't sealing, so I re-fitted the cap with a silicone gasket sealant. This stopped the leak and improved the air output pressure , however I could still stop the air coming out with my finger - should I be able to do that? Suction at the air input wasn't that strong either.
Nevertheless, as there was a noticeable improvement in air output pressure I re-fitted the compressor to the car. It is still faulting after about 15 seconds, but it has changed back to C1A20 - pressure increases too slowly when filling reservoir.
I was thinking I about dismantling the compressor again to see if I have made a mistake when I reassembled it, but before I do so I was hoping someone could tell me how strong the air output should be when testing it on the bench.
21st Jul 2015 6:37 am
Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
You shouldn't be able to stop the air flow with your finger.
Mine is the same. Desiccant in the dryer was ok, some of it had turned to powder but nothing serious. Main intake filter from the pump was quite blocked with grey residue which has turned out to be from the piston and bore.
I cleared all the filters and re-assembled and the flow is still terrible and obviously, still getting the same fault.
I'm not going to bother trying to rebuild it as I believe since there is physical damage to the bore and piston, any refurb I do is going to be fairly short lived, and I can put that money towards a new AMK compressor.
The pump appears to be the original @ 234,000km, so from what I've heard about these Hitachis, that's not a bad run by any means.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
22nd Jul 2015 1:24 am
nivekau
Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
Thanks Rich84.
Mine has only done about 75,000 km and is in very good condition. When I rebuilt it the piston was a good fit in the cylinder bore so I'm a bit puzzled by the poor output.
Aside from the airflow, what's also puzzling is that it faults after only 15 seconds, I would have thought the ECU would take a bit longer than that to determine that it is pressurizing too slowly, unless it can actually determine what the compressor output pressure is.
Is that a pressure sensor on the valve block?
Does anyone have a schematic for this EAS system?
22nd Jul 2015 6:37 am
Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
Click image to enlarge
I believe the pressure sensor is on the reservoir.
See the attached photo.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
22nd Jul 2015 6:40 am
nivekau
Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
I had an idea to confirm that if there is sufficient pressure then the system won't flag a fault.
I was thinking I could disconnect the air pipe that takes the output from the compressor and connect it to an external air supply (an external compressor).
If all is well, presumably the EAS compressor on the car should turn off when the air reservoir becomes pressurized (obviously I would kill the external air supply at that point).
Anyone have any views on that theory?
22nd Jul 2015 6:43 am
Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
If you can hold your finger over the dryer output and stop the air flow then the suspension fault is surely going to be caused by low compressor output. You need to figure out why your compressor is down on output.
My compressor's output was down because of very obvious wear to the piston/ring/cylinder as well as probably issues with both valving setups, but seeing as you've rebuilt yours with a new ring, etc. I would be looking at the intake valving to see if air is getting back past it on the compression stroke, and also looking at the possibility of air getting back past the exhaust valve on the intake stroke (creating vacuum in the output side of the pump).2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
23rd Jul 2015 12:15 am
nivekau
Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
You're right of course, it had to be the compressor, so I removed it from the car (again!) and stripped it down. I think I could almost remove it with my eyes closed now
I checked the exhaust valve first, because that's the only thing that wasn't checked when I rebuilt it.
Wish I had read the LR bulletin before taking the cover off - that spring is quite strong! Anyway, that was clean as a whistle.
Then I checked the compressor cylinder and the piston is almost rattling around in the bore. No wonder the pressure was low (incidentally I measured it at 4psi).
This is very disappointing given that I replaced the piston seal and glide ring last October and the car has only done 2-3k km since then, and even some of that was with the EAS disabled.
I bought the refurb kit from X8R in the UK. I can only assume that materials they use for these components are not fit for the purpose, because there's no way they should wear out in that time.
I have now ordered another kit from a different supplier - i6 Automotive. I hope that's better quality. I note that they include a new seating ring for the piston, and they're cheaper than X8R.
Now I need to see if I can get some air into the reservoir in the mean time so I can get my suspension up to normal height so I can drive it while I am waiting for the kit to arrive from the UK.
24th Jul 2015 3:06 am
Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
Your issue with excessive piston clearance sounds exactly like mine, although I haven't rebuilt my compressor. I did see the X8R kit on ebay and was tempted to buy it at one point. Checked codes with Nanocom and I'm getting all the usual compressor fault codes, so mine is getting changed out for an AMK one tomorrow hopefully.
I don't have the spec for the pump, but it might be worth checking with a caliper if the bore is worn beyond the wear limit, hence once the ring is seated, air is still getting past it; or perhaps the bore was scored slightly causing premature wear?
I remember seeing somewhere that a guy who'd rebuilt his Hitachi pump only got another year out of it before the bore was completely worn out. I'm guessing you can't get the bore new? I'm happy to check the bore diameter in mine with a caliper once I have it out.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
24th Jul 2015 3:29 am
nivekau
Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
Max bore diameter on mine is 25.09mm
But the max piston ring is diameter is 24.93
There's a fair bit of dark powder in the crank case beneath the piston.
Also, my car has only done 81,000 km from new, so I'm hoping that means the bore isn't too worn. It certainly looks to be in quite good condition.
Where is your AMK compressor coming from? (and how much $$ if you don't mind sharing?)
24th Jul 2015 3:50 am
Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
Was quoted $1400 from Triumph Rover Spares in Lonsdale.
Could import one myself for a bit less, but these guys are right around the corner from me.
Let us know how you go with the i6 parts - if there's some issue with TRS' stock, I might still go down that path.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
24th Jul 2015 4:17 am
nivekau
Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
Ouch! ($1400) - is that for the whole kit, including new enclosure, relay, air pipes etc?
Or is that a fitted price?
I found the whole kit on ebay in the US for about AUD$1000, but that doesn't include postage to AU or GST which would apply.
Looking at the Arnotts site in the US, they don't appear to be selling the AMK compressor any more and now list a replacement model by Dunlop, which fits in the original enclosure and doesn't require any other changes. So it's a direct replacement for the Hitachi.
Unless I can find some negative feedback on these I'm about to order one from the UK, approx AUD$800 including postage.
I'll still rebuild the Hitachi again, because it's in very good condition other than the worn piston.
24th Jul 2015 6:42 am
Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
Apparently it's for the whole kit, supply only. Still bloody expensive. I would be looking at importing it myself, but with the exchange rate the way it is I'd be looking at over $1000 at least from any of the reputable UK sellers, so it will still attract 15% duty, and with freight of at least $150, there's not much in it.
Anyway, I have a weekend of 4wd'ing with mates coming, followed by a 10,000-odd km road trip up to FNQ, so I need it fixed - don't want to be making excuses for my LR!
The Dunlop pump has been around for a couple of years now but I haven't read much feedback for it. Arnott are well known in Audi Allroad circles for their replacement air springs. My brother's Allroad has arnott front springs and an Arnott supplied compressor. They both seem to work well, but the Allroad's setup is nowhere near as heavy duty as what you get on the LR's.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
26th Jul 2015 11:02 pm
nivekau
Member Since: 19 Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 85
I decided to buy the AMK as well.
The Dunlop one looks just like the Hitachi one, except it's probably made in China rather than Japan! Doesn't fill me with confidence.
Just ordered an AMK one a UK dealer for about AUD$950, delivered to a family member in the UK who will ship it to me, with a slightly reduced declared value
I should have my repair kit for the Hitachi compressor on Wednesday so hopefully that will get me back on the road in the mean time. I will just get as much life out of that as I can, then install the AMK.
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